How Mustafa Kemal Atatürk Destroyed Islam in Turkey

Secular Islam Turkey national flagBismillah,
Turkey is gradually regaining the global attention it once enjoyed albeit for different reasons. The main international focus has been on Turkey’s EU entry talks which began in October 2005 on joining the European Union (EU). But the subtler and the less pronounced is the revival of Islam in Turkey despite nearly 90 years hostile secular Governments.

Although today Turkey seldom figures in Muslim or Islamic discourse, it was for five centuries the center of the Muslim world, until that fatal day, March 3rd, 1924, when Mustafa Kemal Pasha Ataturk abolished the Caliphate -office of the successors to prophet Muhammad, the supreme politico-religious office of Islam, and symbol of the Turkey sultan’s claim to world leadership of all Muslims—was abolished.

Turkey Ottoman Islamic architecture mosqueToday 98% of Turkey’s population is officially Muslim but the proportion of practicing Muslims is as low as 20%. However unlike in Europe where church attendance gradually fell in Turkey it is the result of a systematic attempt to constrain and weaken Islam by successive Kemalist secular governments and the military.

The hostility towards Islam began in early 1920s. A military commander, Mustafa Kemal Pasha led the Turkish War of Independence to form the Republic of Turkey as the successor state of the defunct Ottoman Empire. For this Mustafa Kemal became very popular and adored by all Turks. Thereafter he became the first President of the Republic of Turkey. The Turks venerated him so much he was given the name ‘Atatürk’, meaning Father of the Turks, (honorific name formally presented to him by the Turkish Grand Assembly in 1934.)

Ottoman Mustafa Kemal Pasha Ataturk Father of TurkeyBut Mustafa Kemal Pasha Ataturk was no ordinary leader. He was an astute statesman and strewed strategist. He didn’t express to the public how he would develop Turkey until he got the power to execute his vision (i.e. not until he was President of Turkey.)

Then Atatürk carefully constructed and deployed a master plan, today known as the Kemalist ideology or Kemalism. Believing in this strategy Ataturk and his associates started to publicly question the value of religion and held the view religion was not compatible with modern science and secularism was imperative for modernity.

Ataturks reforms Ottoman Islamic TurkeyThus Ataturk regime began step by step to implement the Kemalist ideology with a radical reformation of the Turkish society with the aim of modernizing Turkey from the remnants of its Ottoman past. In line with their ideological convictions the Ataturk government abolished Islamic religious institutions; replace the Shariah law with adapted European legal codes; replaced the Islamic calendar with the Gregorian calendar; replace the Arabic script which was used to write the Turkish language with the Latin script and closed all religious schools.

In addition Ataturk took over the country’s 70,000 mosques and restricted the building of new mosques. Muftis and imams (prayer leaders) were appointed and regulated by the government, and religious instructions were taken over by the Ministry of National Education. Mosques were to preach according to the Ataturk’s dictates and were used to spread the Kemalist ideology.

For Sufi Muslims it was worse. Atatürk confiscated Sufi lodges, monasteries, meeting places and outlawed their rituals and meetings.

Turkey mosque muslim hijab girlAccording to Ataturk modernity was valued and represented as not wearing any religious dress or being non-religious. So he ordered what cloths Turkey’s citizens should wear. The traditional garb of local religious leaders was outlawed. The fez (Turkish hat) was banned for men and the veil and hijab (headscarves) were discouraged and restricted for women.

Atatürk and his colleagues even wanted to Turkify Islam. They ordered Muslims to use the Turkish word Tanri instead of Allah for God and use the Turkish language in Salaath (the 5 times prayers) and Azaan (the call for prayers). These preposterous changes deeply disturbed the faithful Muslims and caused widespread resentment, which led in 1933 to a return to the Arabic version of the call to prayer.

After some time the Atatürk regime moved towards more extreme measures. Ataturk prohibited religious education. The existing mosques were turned into museums or used for the regimes secular purposes.

Turkey oppress Kurds Sufi Sunni Shia IslamThe faithful Turkish and Kurdish Muslims be they Sunni, Shia or Sufi were powerless against Mustafa Kemal Ataturk’s regime and his military. But they tried to resist the oppression and even led rebellions. But he was too strong for them and Ataturk suppressed the rebellions after massive bloodsheds. (e.g. Seyh Sait rebellion in southeastern Turkey which claimed nearly 30,000 lives before being suppressed had its roots in religious grievances.)

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk died in 1938. After that some of his preposterous laws were revoked by his successors due to their harshness and the fact that Islam was always a strong force at the popular level despite the suppression.

ottoman islam mosque in turkeySince then there have been occasional calls for a return to Islam. But the secular governments and military true to the Kemalist ideology have managed to suppress them. Amidst this environment in the 1980s a new generation of educated, articulate and religiously motivated leaders emerged to challenge the dominance of the Kemalist political ruling elite. By their own example of piety, prayer, and political activism, they have helped to spark a revival of Islamic observance in Turkey.

But the Turkish military and the state bureaucracy are infiltrated with (Kemalist) secularists and act as the guardians of Ataturk’s reforms and work to preserve Kemalism and weaken Islam. This situation has gradually led to a polarization of the Turkish society and today Turkey remains as someone observed a ‘torn society’.

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759 Responses to How Mustafa Kemal Atatürk Destroyed Islam in Turkey

  1. Sadettin says:

    If Ataturk’s revolutions are as bad as you try to explain, then how was he able to create a nation and a country out of ruins of Ottomans after WWI, and how this nation became the most advanced Islamic country, without oil or any natural resourses ?

    • PP says:

      You’re missing the point totally. No one is denying the things he did for Turkiye, and the great he did for the country. This article is about all the terrible things he did, in relation to religion.Pretty pathetic when Non Muslim countries have better rights for Muslims, than Muslim countries do. E.g wearing of the Hijab etc. You are totally mixing up 2 points, the most advanced islamic country is irrelevant when so many are not practicing Muslims. No one denys the great things Turkey has done or become, but that doesn’t justify the other not so great traits.

      • My Muslim brothers and sisters, You will be sad when you read about what kind of things this man called the “Father of Turks” did to Islam in Turkey. But you can act to reverse what he did! Here are 2 things you can do to help the Islam in Turkey.

        1) Dua is the most powerful weapon of the believer. Just take a minute now! Ask a small dua from Allah for Turkish Muslims. Ask him to strengthen their Imaan (faith) and make them better Muslims. Because Prophet Muhammad (sal) had said:”Ask Allah for everything, even the lace of your shoes. If Allah does not provide, it will never be available.” [Ibn al-Sunni, no. 349 - hasan. Supported by at-Tirmidhi 4/298 and others.]

        Allah Almighty says in the Qur’an: “When my servants ask you concerning me, (tell them) I am indeed close (to them). I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calls on me.” [2:186]

        Secondly, please spread the word about what Ataturk actually did against Islam, so that it
        reaches those who will do something about it. (When I wrote this article and shared some things about him on this blog about 6 years ago I hardly thought it will matter. But Alhamdullillah looking back today I can see Allah has made thousands of people read this article. You can see proof of it by the number of comments alone this article has got here.)
        May Allah reward your dua and efforts. Jazakallah.

      • Faz says:

        Asalaam to all my muslims,

        Maybe I am a bit late to this discussion but here goes.

        I understand why people are discussing Mr K.A. it is a very full on topic but in my view and this is just my own personal view, is that as Muslims looking at the state of ‘Islamic country’s today e.g. Turkiye and how they have come to be this way is not of importance.

        I believe that we should be looking at why they were once so great and what made them the centre of the best of civilisation where people from different cultures, religion and backgrounds could live under one rule. Where all people from men, women, children and even animals had rights before any of these modern ‘democracies’ came to exist.

        I believe the answer is simple ‘taqwa’ fear of Allah.

        You see the simple matter of the fact is that we should study the lives of the leaders that made Islam shine as a guidance on mink kind. These people lead simple lives, eat simple food and every action was made from fear of Allah. Its worth to note there may have been mistakes but they are only but human at the end of the day never the less their hearts and minds were in the right place striving to achieve for the pleasure of Allah.

        Islam is a complete religion where we are told to respect elders, women, children, religions and that no man is greater then another but in piety and good actions.

        Its people and the Muslims of today like me who are so wrapped up in their own lives about, money, cars, houses coming from the natural essence of man greed, jealousy, spite, etc. How can I call myself a muslim!

        Islam does not say that we cannot have these things but we should not make these the purpose of our lives ‘ sad to say that these are our priorities and ambitions’.

        I am first to admit that I am not the best of Muslims but I believe in order for us the Ummah to move forward we need start concentrating or efforts on practising Islam and bridge the gap between knowledge and action starting with fard ‘compulsary’ the 5 pillars Shahadah, salat, Swam ‘fasting’, zakat and hajj. Once we have become punctual on these things then incorporate the sunnah of our beloved prophet Muhammed (SAW).

        When the souls of the Ummah are all directed towards Allah then watch them rise for true justice and freedom.

        I can’t bear today’s society everywhere you go everywhere you look its a shame but we must keep on and make dua ‘supplication’ to Allah to forgive and guide the Ummah.

        This is just my belief

    • ashrafanam says:

      There is no Islamic country in the world today, not even the Islamic Republic of Iran, Pakistan or the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is Islamic. Muslims have lost Islam right after the fall of the Ottoman State and the rise of nation-states. Ataturk is just a slave of the West and have destroyed the great Muslim culture that survived through the Ottoman Caliphate by bringing the invading secular and godless Western culture he calls “modern.” There is absolutely nothing we can give him the credits for.

    • ashrafanam says:

      If you consider Turkiyye [the region where the Turks live], it were the Ottomans who created a great nation and country out of it. The Young Turks brought the state into war which destroyed it and then Ataturk emerged in the scene complying by the West’s divide and rule policy and invited Westernization into it. What came out was the Secular Republic of Turkey

  2. Hi Sadettin,
    Ataturk did a great deal for Turkey. In fact I think if it wasn’t for his leadership Turkey would today be in pieces. But that doesn’t mean we can accept everything he did as correct can we?

    By the way, Malaysia is the most advanced Muslim country.

    • Yasin says:

      You are being childish. There is no reason for a “who has more testosterone” contest. Cunneyt Bey, maybe you should reconsider your blanket statements as well; it is hard to prove a statement that claims “many” Turks believe “all” of what Kemal did was right. I am Turkish and I am disgraced by my fellow countryman who cannot argue points like an adult. I am also disgraced by how lazy many Turks I know are. You are a perfect example. If you are so adamant and passionate about what you believe, then make a website and blog about your own feelings. Perhaps in the meantime you will mature enough for educated minds to pay heed to what you have to say.

      Grow up. It is OK to question authority.

      -Yasin

    • TURKOV says:

      You are wrong Malaysia is NOT the most advanced muslim country over Turkey, this is not even a joke, Turkey Ranks 6th of the worlds millitary power it was 10th about two years ago since then her economy has been one of the fastest economies. If you’re sure why don’t you lobby for a Turkey vs. Malaysia war.
      Source:
      http://www.globalfirepower.com/

      • XOXO says:

        advance does not mean having more guns n tanks….you idiot !!!
        i’ve been to Turkey….its a beautiful country…
        but its a shame how most of them claim to be Muslim, but are not practicing it properly…

      • seeheart says:

        Turkov, Your name looks like you are from Turkiye… how old are you brother?…grow up.

        Hope the sercularist Turks realised that they are not European no matter how they tried and the Europeans have never accepted them. Shame on them. Mustafa Kemal which born in Jewish family has fooled your forefather and rob the nation by betraying a strong nation in the hand of kufar. May Allah help Erdogan and AKP in eventually re-educating the secularist the reality about Turkey history instead of the deceiving fact of history taught in your education system since primary school.

      • Malezya says:

        I am a Malaysian and I went to Turkey. I like turkey very much and I like turkish people as well. There is no doubt that Turkey is more advanced country compare to Malaysia, at all. But I pray to Allah that all muslim everywhere on this planet to unite, revert to true islam and build a great muslim nation. We will be stronger if we stand together despite of fighting each other.

  3. moheet says:

    salamalekum…

    i m a moghal.. a turk origin and i hate ataturk coz he destroyed caliphate and moslims today sufering coz of his treachery…

    why in turjey a book on ataturk is banned??
    by DR. RIZA NOOR

    • Eray HAYTA says:

      we dont care you hate or not ok ?
      we are not intererest your country what think
      because
      we are turkiye

    • E.D says:

      well i dunno about what i think about the ottoman empire + ataturk, but i’m gla turkey sin’t like those countires that are effed up (saudia arabia…etc.) that force people into wearing burkas and veils, and have an ‘islamic police’ o.0 thats crazy. but i still think turkey should become a democracy and let people wear whatever they want wherever they want. (like removing the headscarf bans in schools. people should be free to wear what they want without all this drama)

      • Nasir, Khi says:

        Freedom doesn’t mean that one should be allowed to ‘do whatever he/she wants to do’ rather, it is about operating within the given guidelines. Therefore, if you are a Muslim, you should obey the laws & principles laid down by Islam and operate within them. Otherwise, no one, including yourself has the right to Amend or Alter the Fiqah & teachings of Islam as per ‘your wish & will’. People better reconsider calling them a Muslim or whatever…

  4. moheet says:

    u said that ataturk saved turks…wow..

    ONLY ONE SOLDIER FOUGHT AND DESTROYED BRITTS…UR TRYIN TO SAY THAT???

    IT WAS THE MOSLIM TURKS WHO PUSHED BACK THEM NOT ALONE ATATURK…

  5. WaAlaikum Salam Moheet,
    That’s a good point you raised. Thank you. What I meant from my earlier comment was that Ataturk’s leadership was vital in securing present day Turkey’s borders and even it’s independence at a time when British, Greeks and other troops were advancing into Turkey and trying to carve up land for their countries.

    By the way, can you tell me more about that book about Ataturk that’s banned in Turkey?

  6. KHALIL K HULUKAN says:

    Assalamu alaikum i am a turkish cypriot muslim and i just want to say that at a young age i was brainwashed to love Mustafa Kemal! Note that i do not call him ATATURK,because ATATURK means head of turks or father of turks…he is the downfall of all turks in turkey and cyprus.THE TURKISH PEOPLE have been fooled for years by a jewish german undercover british agent and freemason.thats all this man is! turkish people were clean,washed and prayed 5 times a day,turkish women were covered up no alcohole gambling fornication,we even wrote in ARABIC until this shaytan worshiping freemason came and brainwashed us and made us westernized changed the whole culture into kaffirs(liars and non belivers) but mashaAllah there are still some turks out there like myself on the write path. I just want to say to all my turks and turkish cypriots its time to get back to the right way the way of ADAM,NOAH,IBRAHIM,JESUS AND MUHAMMAD and many more great man, peace be upon them all.I love all my turks for the sake of Allah but com’on brothers and sisters its time to fix up.salamu alaikum…

    • Ahmet Barut says:

      I’m Turkish Cypriot, and I am a proud Muslim and I am proud of my people and our history. Like 1 Muslim Nation had said Mustafa Kemal only liberated Turkey as an Independant state. But don’t people see the irony of how he liberated us then he made us change our lives and live like the european Kaffir?? Wake Up people, instead of re-establishing Islam, Kemal replaced it with the inferior European Secularism. Now the legacy of that unfortunate establishment has resulted in the religious ignorance of many Turks, which has now become our downfall, most Turks don’t even know what secularism is let alone the basics of Islam. That’s how oppressed my people are and they don’t even realise it. My people we have to wake up you owe it to yourselves to learn about your religion Islam. It is very important, because it is the only thing in this world that will liberate us. By the way, Islam is what gave the Turks and the world the Ottoman Empire, because we were on the side of Allah. Alhamdulilah

    • Ahmet Barut says:

      As-Salamu Aleikum,

      Hi brother, I’m also Turkish Cypriot, and I’ve also realised what state our people are in. I’m glad I’m not the only one. Our people have to wake up and study their religion. People are being conditioned to think that Mustafa Kemal somehow saved the Turks and Islam by making them “modern” by making them live the European way, the way of the very people who were trying to destroy us. The reality is they have managed to colonise us without people even realising. The Shari’ah law is perfect, the people who say religion should not mix with politics really do not understand Islam. It worked for all of those centuries so, why wouldn’t it work now?? People will come out with the argument that certain religious officials would try to change Shari’ah law to oppress for their own gain, which some apparently did. And they say this is why religion with politics doesn’t work. Well hold on a second, why do you blame Islam and Shari’ah for what those particular officials did? Instead of getting rid of those certain officials and re-establishing Islam and the Shari’ah, which many Turks have now forgotten about and don’t want to even know about. They have been brain washed to think that the only way forward is european secularism, the very system that oppresses people without them even knowing. The very system that brings out injustice not only in the law but also society. The very system that breeds the diseases of the Sheytan. Many Turks today say they are proud to be Turkish and Muslim when most of them don’t know even know the basics of Islam, and will rather spend their lives indulging themselves with everything European & Western. This is called Hypocrisy, and the worst type because people are doing it to themselves with out even realising, which is the saddest thing.. People wake up for the sake of Allah, pick up a book and learn about Islam. Turks are so lucky that Allah has made us Muslims, but unfortunately, we don’t know the value of what we posses. We posses a treasure which is the only Truth in this world and should be shared with the whole of mankind as Allah wants it to be. That’s the way to really go forward. This is the very reason why Islam is the fastest growing religion today, and here we are so eager to live like the Kaffir. Esta Furlah . May Allah guide all of us to the straight path and may His Nur enter into our hearts, as it once was. Insha Allah T’ala ameen.

      • Sefigil Kenaat says:

        Ahmet Barut, your reply should be written in gold.

        In my opinion, Turkey is a Lion, its roar is Islam. This roar could be heard during its Caliphate. All other nations looked upon it with awe and respect. Unfortunately, that lion has been now been captured and placed in the cage of Secularism. When the lion is in the jungle everyone fears it. When it is captured and placed in a zoo, even little children are not afraid of it and make fun of it. I am hoping for better days.

        • Keep it humble says:

          Turkey and the rest of the Islamic world lost its leadership edge that it had in the 13th century. By the 20th century it was super weak. None of the Islamic countries are strong today due to weak education systems. The only ones that are wealthy are due to oil. Maylaysia has money due to secular practices such as educating everyone, and due to free market capitalism.

          • so? says:

            umm, no one really cares if one country is religously more powerful. why are you judging countires power based on religion, and only judging ‘islamic’ countries. malaysia is def. not the most powerful country, i think its the us or maybe japan (not sure), but who cares what is more powerful or not. *sigh* i guess this is what nationalism is -.-

        • Khawaja Ahsan Iftikhar says:

          i salute you giving a beautiful example , i am fully agree with you bro.

      • shamsuddin saiyyed says:

        Asalamwaleikum wa rehmatullilahi wa barqatahu..masha Allah my brothers..good to know the nur of islam is still the driving force in these dark times..pseudo secular pro western ideologies and \ or forces have corrupted and strive to destroy the thread of unity that binds all muslims..we’re better poised to fight them together..united..under the caliphate..,
        empathy and love;turkey is invaluable and integral to the muslim world..being an indian my grandfather led khilafat protests against brits for abolishing the caliphate..

      • Nasir, Khi says:

        Dear Ahmet, Saifigil, Khalil & other concerned Turkish brotehrs & sister.
        I would only say that don’t loose hope. Allah will help Turks & the Muslim Ummah to unite, InshaAllah. Awareness & correcting the direction is the first step which you people have already taken by getting rid of Military dominance in Turkey. Here in Pakistan, we had a die-hard lover & follower of Mustafa Kamal (will not call him Ataturk now) i.e. Gen Pervez Musharraf who loudly praised Mjustafa Kamal as his ideal. I and many people in Pakistan were horrified with his views, Alhamdolillah, he is gone. Not to worry, you will succeed finally – Turkey will rise to the level it deserve in the Muslim world, Ameen.

    • Mohammed JH says:

      Man, i loved your comment because I believe it’s part of the truth. I hope people wake up within time and understand.. the only one that’s worth our love and admire is Allah. I love Turkey and I hope people in this lovely country go back to the real Islam instead of following the west where none of the west accept them. Turkey is part of Islam and the prophet him self said that there’ll be another Fateh “opening or liberation” and Turkey later on will be among the best army in the Islamic army against the Jews.

  7. Moheet Alam Baig says:

    salam agian ma turk bros…

    here is the name of that book…
    hayat ve hatıratım – (my life and my memorises)

    its banned in turkey :(
    everything written truth,…
    that he was one of the 1000s spies that brittons set on ottoman and mughal empire…

    read more here…
    http://mitglied.lycos.de/goezelel53/M__Kemal_de_mi_/body_m__kemal_de_mi_.htm

  8. Moheet Alam Baig says:

    and bro….i m from india actually . Why ppl say ataturk saved turkey…i mean
    1. it was not only ataturk who fought alone…
    i agree that he had leadership qualities..but in warfront there can be many ppl who can lead..

    2. i tell u another thing..just think…..
    in india(then pak-afgan-india-bangladesh) in 1857 mughals and other small indian hindu kingdoms united to fight against the britts…
    even after such high spirited attack they cudnt remove the britss coz britts at that time were very powerful…
    and turkey (which is twice as half as india) fought at that time britts powerhouse and removed them???

    this is where i dont agree….
    i think that something inside must have happened…
    my veiw on inside policy that – britts wanted to destroy islam(remove caliphate too) in turkey…so they said – ok will retreit untill u derstroy islam in turkey and caliphate too..

    what do u think bro??

    • Elizabeth says:

      Mr.Indian Gentilmen,in America Im mostly working with Indian Drs.Normal non-Muslim Indian people are not thinking like you,but on the other hand all muslim indian people here talking just like you.is this coincidence.There is no nation in islam,there is ummet.

    • ashrafanam says:

      You are absolutely right, bro. That’s the whole point. Muslims and Hindus fought against the British but Ataturk did not fight against the British, he just complied by their policy of divide and rule and destruction of Islam securing his position as the President of what came out to be Modern Turkey

    • Khan_pk says:

      You should read about treaty of Sevres.
      As for the failure of war of independence of 1857, there were some shortcomings that you need to consider before making its comparison with Turkish war. The most important one is that the war of Independence was fought against East India Company, an enterprise.
      Now, some of the main causes of failure were:
      1. Changes in Plan: The plan was to start the war simultaneously throughout the country but it was started prematurely.
      2. The Treachery of the Sikhs: They provided every possible assistance to British army i.e. Sikh states of Jind and Patiala gave generous financial and military assistance to their English masters.
      3. Absence of Leadership: There was no single commander. You must not forget that the last Mughal emperor i.e. Bahadur Shah Zafar was in his 80s and could not participate actively.
      4. East India company had the control over the means of communication and transport.
      5. Economic conditions were not really good. In some instances, Bahadur Shah had to ask for loans to provide for the needs for his army.

    • GS says:

      Do you ever think about the hands of the Bedouin Arabs in the decline and evetual ouster of Ottoman. Who benefitted most from Ottoman decline, it was the house of Saud. Today the Saud dynasty is the custodian of the Holy mosque.

      PS: I am giving a neutral point of view as i am neither Turk nor Arab neither am i an Muslim.

  9. shaz says:

    He is never coming back no matter how much he wishes in order to reverse his ignorant actions.

    Inshallah the true believers will see him burn with all his colleagues in the new world to come!

    Victory to the people who believe in One God, The pure, The Creator of all things, the only owner of all praise and ultimate submission!

  10. Salam
    Thank you for that explanation Moheet. I think you are right.

  11. Sadettin says:

    To moheet ,KHALIL K HULUKAN ,Moheet Alam Baig ,shaz and all enemies of Islam;

    I don’t know what you are believing or which fake religion you belong but what I know exactly and I am sure 100% is,

    “The Qur’an says there is only one Islam. God is one. That’s it. There can be many shari’as. The relation betweeen the shari’a and religion is part of religious discourse. First they equate the shari’a with Islam and then they equate their own interpretations with the shari’a… That is the worst sin you can commit in the name of Islam — and of humanity… The Qur’an cannot be a constitution. It can only be an inspiration” .

    I don’t know if you are aware but one of the things that Ataturk did after building the Turkish Republic is printing thousands of copies of the Turkish Translation of Holy Koran and distribute it all over Turkey. Also during the republican period 100,000 mosques were built, exceeding the number built during the whole Ottoman period. Religious officials working outside Turkey received salaries that were sometimes higher than those of diplomats.

    He did this because he knew that Pure Islam is not what it is understood by the people like you.
    What you are dreaming or what you are taught by your swindler sheikhs is not Islam what Hz. Muhammed (SAV) tried to teach people.

    Ataturk, a real revolutionary, saved Islam. That is, he helped rescue Islam in Turkey from the state and from obscurantism and populist superstition. Ataturk restored another dimension of religion; he returned to the “spirit of Islam which has to live in the people not in the state.The Qur’an does not accept an ecclesiastical class. ( Mollas, sheikshs etc … The class that the people like you are belonging or slaving)

    Last word, Ataturk is one of the real HERO’s of Islam.He opened the way of freedom for Islam and Qur’an, “the connection of the hearts of the people and the God not the chains on peoples hearts”

    • Cuneyt Isik says:

      Sadettin kardesim , bu serefsiz evlatlari CURRY kokan gotu boklu iki ucten baska bir sey degil. Havlayan ip isirmaz derler ya, birak havlasinlar. Ne kadardir kullanmiyorsun burayi ama ben bugun denk geldim, bir iki sey yazdim… Ataturk’un kahramnligi hakkinda herhangi bir seyden haber olmayan iki uc at hirsizi bunlar, bu blog’u da kapattirmak icin basvuru da yaptim simdi. Bakalim bu pislikleri sildirebilirsem iyi olacak. Neyse, kolay gelsin.

      • Apanama says:

        Is this blog in English or something else? Have some respect for the non-Turkish readers. Or am I to suppose that this is the behaviour of a fanatical Muslims.

    • ashrafanam says:

      Are you Muslim? What religion do you belong to? You seem completely ignorant about Islam and the message of Nabi salla-llahu alayhi wa-sallam. You need to go back and study Islam and the Message of Nabi Muhammad salla-llahu alayhi wa-sallam before you think you are Muslim.

    • Khan_pk says:

      Brother, I’m a little confused. If what you say is right and Islam encourages, in fact makes it obligatory for muslims to adopt western culture as actively practiced by Kamal then i believe only Kamal and his followers are gonna enjoy Jannah. But i would like to ask you something, have you ever took some moments out of precious time to read the Hadith and Quran? I’m pretty sure that your study regarding what Ataturk did is more than the study of Quran, Hadith and Seerat-e-Nabawi (SAW). You need to open your eyes.

  12. Sadettin says:

    To Moheet Alam Baig ,

    You said” it was not only ataturk who fought alone…”

    Yes, you are right he didn’t fight alone, but he was the leader. He let Turks to believe the idea of freedom and let them to resist and convinced them to die for their freedom. 5million Turks died for freedom.And they did it.

    You said;
    ” i tell u another thing..just think…..
    in india(then pak-afgan-india-bangladesh) in 1857 mughals and other small indian hindu kingdoms united to fight against the britts…
    even after such high spirited attack they cudnt remove the britss coz britts at that time were very powerful…
    and turkey (which is twice as half as india) fought at that time britts powerhouse and removed them???”

    Yes as Turks we did it. What Indians did not have is ATATURK and the Turkish blood in their vessels. This is the difference!

    • shamsuddin saiyyed says:

      ok first..u did not do anything..neither did the turks..Allah gave them a victory and we should be thankful to him..or your generations would be british slaves or another palestine..kemal won the war before proclaiming his ideology..his backers wouldnt have allied with him had he disclosed it earlier..and are you talking superior blood and all that shit?thats not kemal..thats racial..i’m indian too..i’m a syed if u know what that means..afghani baloch syed descendants of the prophet(pbuh)..not all indians are black dravidians you know..infact tadkeshwar(google it) a village in gujarat is 70 % turks..muslims too…so get informed before lashing that imbecile tongue of yours.

    • Apanama says:

      The Indians are a confused lots of fellows. There are so many states that are so different in languages, cultures and mindsets. They can’t even agree to a common language and today English is the language for one Indian in one corner of the country to speak or write to another. The British gave up b’cos there isn’t anymore economic sense to keep the country.

  13. KHALIL K HULUKAN says:

    To Seddattin.. Firstly brother assalamu alaikum,how are you? Hope you are well secondly do you believe in one god, do you pray,do you give charity,do you fast and have you ever gone to Makkah? If you have not done any of things or not planing to do these things you are brainwashed by the media and system and have no real purpose in life, like i used to be.
    How can you call Mustafa Kemal a hero of islam? come on brother didnt you read what i said he made us western changed everything about us made our sisters naked and made our brothers ignorant this man you call the head of your people destroye turkey,you call mustafa kemal the head of your people and i call the prophet MUHHAMAD (SAW) the head and best human of mankind, i dont no if you are a true muslim or not but if you aint, just read brother about this beutiful way of life passed down to us by ALLAH and all his prophets. sallamu alaikum.

  14. Moheet says:

    @ sidettin

    dude u said “What Indians did not have is ATATURK and the Turkish blood in their vessels. This is the difference!”

    hehehehe….lolz
    u know anyrhing about mughals??????
    BAIG in ottoman language means Bey… means military comander

    mughals were from turkish family only…

    search BAIG in wikipedia

    and thanx muslim nation…u shud read that book which i told u…

    U wont beleive but when i was a child i loved ataturk…but a TURK muslim only told me that Ataturk was a greek spy…yea he is.!!!

    read CONFESSIONS OF BRITISH SPY…here
    http://www.hakikatkitabevi.com

    • Cuneyt Isik says:

      You are a big MORON, with no BRAIN…Pitty to you and the other people like you in their comments in this website. You go keep eating your CURRY chicken dude. What the f…you know about history anyways….

      • Nasir says:

        ples don’t call other people moron..
        if other people read your word, there is sins comin to way, and who knows, because of your little typed word here, you cannot enter the Jannah???
        we should not think that our thought is the best one around. understand others and think back. if we think that our idea is the best, ples don’t condemn others thought.
        if we don’t like it, leave it. show some respect. don’t make the respect fly away from us…
        just from a sinful muslim..

    • mawdu says:

      This book is but a FORGERY, see http://mawdu.wordpress.com/2009/08/08/confessions-of-british-spy/

      May ALlah unite us on the truth!

  15. Moheet says:

    @ sidettin

    If MKA were to be a great leader then why he did the following things??

    1. destroyed caliphate as result muslims being killed in iraq , bosnia, palestine……etc.
    2. banned hijab in turkey (http://www.prohijab.net/english/turkey-hijab-news.htm)
    3. changed arabic letters to latin in turkey..so that new muslim generation would be lost and have NO connection to the Isamic roots.
    4. Cancelled all islamic holidays.
    5. killed people who refused to wear that English Hat.
    6. He was gay too ( read book on ataturk by DR. RIZA NOOR which is now banned in turkey)
    7. he was NOt even a turk .., leave alone father of turks he was born in Greece.
    8. He threw QURAN and Abused IMAM of the highest mosque.
    9. ran away from iran and syria … as of course he was a coward and sold islam cheap to the british so that he can make modern turkey..!!
    10 Turks have been foooled by ataturk and his legacy carriers for soooo long
    11. its time to rise UP!!

    WHY KEMALIST GOVNT IN TURKEY IMPLIES STUPID LAWS IN A MUSLIM NATION??

    HERE IS A LIST…

    1) Turkey runs many government brothels where turkish hookers give there sexual services to men for money.In edition to this turk government also runs places called General Houses where according to local Turks, each of their families owed taxes. The family could pay the tax, or if that wasn’t possible, the woman would work in the General House for a set length of time which was based on the amount owed in other words they have sex to pay off taxes owed to the turkish govenment the women get about 1.45(USD)per fuck.

    2)Turkey is not a democracy it is military dictatorship (has had over 5 coups aganist all non secular corrupt dogs).

    3.)Turkey is a muslim country that montoirs all 75000 mosques to make sure they are not telling the truth.

    4.)Turkey bans all women from wearing hijab police often jail women who do not take off there headscarves in government buildings.

    5.)Turkey has commited many masscares against minotries mostly kurds there army has raped and killed thousands and has also done many false flag attacks and then blamed kurds for doing this.They also hire thugs like grey wolves to kill people who did not listen to them.Turkey has also trained and armed groups like kurdish hezbollah who have killed many innocnet people in southeast turkey.

    6)
    8.Ataturk was a brutal dictaor who forced turks to give up there laungue and there relgion by force he used brutal military represson against all those that stood in his way such has Seyh Sait rebellion, an uprising in southeastern Turkey that may have claimed as many as 30,000 lives before being suppressed. He forced women in Angora to unveil during his rein in power.

    9.Turkey recongnizes Israel and has good realtions them.
    There is more but u get the idea.

    why turkey is secular??
    u have 98% of mulism in turkey
    besides ISLAM is the most democratic and secular sysytem…

    ISLAM THE MOST DEMOCRATIC & TOLERANT SYSTEM …
    Vem’bery says, ” Islam is still the most democratic religion in the world, a religion favouring both liberty and equality. If there ever was a constitutional government it was that of the first Caliphs. ”
    –Vem’bery, La Turquie d’aujard’hui et d’vant Quarante Aus.pg-58 ]

    ISLAMIC SYSTEM GAVE FREEDOM TO ITS SUBJECTS FOR WORSHIPING , TRADE ETC…

    “…….After the cosolidation of the Saracen conquest, the toleration of islam was extended over to the Catholic Church. Many Christians historians themselves bear testimony to this effect. The Ecclesiastical historian ‘RENQUDOT’. e.g., informs that,” the rank, the immunities, and the domestic jurisdiction of Patriarchs, Bishops and the clergy were protected by [muslims] civil magistrates [of Egypt]…
    “[The Historic Role of Islam, by M.N.Roy,pg-45,Vora & Co.8 Round Building, Bombay-2]

    ” No amount of coercion could possibly force a whole nation to abandon its traditional faith with so little resistance and accept that of the conqueror with such surprising alacrity as did the Persians over the vast territory from the Tigris to the Oxus.The ancient faith was decayed. It no longer satisfied the spiritual requirement of a cultured people.”
    –[The Historic Role of Islam, by M.N.Roy,pg-47,Vora & Co.8 Round Building, Bombay-2]

    “….when Jerusalem capitulated to Khalif Omer, the inhabitants of the vanquished city were left in possesion of thier worldly goods, and allowed the freedom of worship. A special quarter of the city was allotted for the residence of Christian population with thier Patriarch and his clergy.”–
    [Rise and Fall of Roman Empire- GIBBON]

    THEN WHY KEMALISTS IDEOLOGY??

    WHEN WE HAVE ISLAM THE BLESSING OF ALLAH!!!

    • salim says:

      if the facts stated by Sadettin are true, then, what makes the great country to go to the doorstesps of Europeans and beg for membership…

  16. emine says:

    Moheet Alam Baig,
    you are wrong my brother.
    i am turkish. some of you are right and some not.
    the reality is mustafa (kemal) was not turkish. the jews who had seeked refuge among the ottomans were known publicly. their names were written in files and everybody knew who they were. they were taken care of just as many other refugees of different nationalities. when outside forces couldnt find a way in destroying the ottomans ,for the ottomans were truelly pious and devout muslims, the ‘forces’ resorted to a different tactic. they sent in a few munafiqeen and it was the work of centuries that weakend us. by the time mustafa (kemal) came along, we were weak, and ataturk (of jewish decent) , which was to be the last blow, and was introduced. the files which seperated a jew from a turk were either distroyed or stolen- they are lost. destroying those files meant opening the way for non-turks to force their way into government and rule. he is not a turk, it took sometime for them to find a turk mother for ataturk. even longer to find a turk father. sounds all cynical? yes, a lot had to happen to destroy a great empire and weaken great ppl. im proud to b turk, but i am a muslim first. and its only when one sets his/her priorities right, that we can see things as they are.

    ps. these ‘jews’ are coming out, mustafa (kemal) wasnt the only one. they know who they are but we dont know them. they walk among us. since those files have vanished ,they are among us, as turks.
    some however lately, have come out and are wanting to be recognised as jews. israel rejected them just as greece has rejected pontians from turkey. israel has its own agenda in not recognising them, so basicaly, those who have come out are experiencing an identity crises.. an example of these ppl is Tansu Ciller.

    i pray that these files , which are vital for turkey’s future have not been destroyed and will one day come to surface. we will then see who mustafa (kemal) is & who has been ruling my land for the past century..

    ps. . turkey is ij very different situations right now. armenians, kurds, greeks, all want a part of it. perhaps if we are thrust into danger, then the ppl will be awakened and the khalifah could be resurrected.. inshaalah.

  17. emine says:

    CORRECTION:
    turkey is in very DIFFICULT (not different) right now. armenians, kurds, greeks, all want a part of it. perhaps if we are thrust into danger, then the ppl will be awakened and the khalifah could be resurrected.. inshaalah.

  18. Salam Emine,
    First, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts.
    You said, “perhaps if we are thrust into danger, then the ppl will be awakened and the khalifah could be resurrected.. inshaalah.”
    hmm…may be, but I implore you to reconsider your position. As a Muslim it is sinful to even think of anyone falling into danger. Yes, we must pray for even our enemies well being in this world and hereafter.

    Also as it is, Muslims (whether they are religious or not) everwhere are in enough danger and suffer alot from corruption, dictators and imperialist powers, yet there is no hint of the resurrection of the Khilafah. If they have not woken up now it’s not likely they’ll wake up if more danger comes.

  19. BRING ISLAM BACK TO TURKEY! says:

    oh you 98% pf turkish muslims! have you forgotten your prophet?, have you forgotten your true father? if it was not for SULTAN MUHAMMAD II would you be in turkey right now? this sultan was far greater than that scum mustaffa kemal! sultan muhammad liberated your land from unjusticness and today you have forgotten that! mustafa kemal mhas destroyed the islamic legacy of turkey, there was once a time when the whole world feared the ottoman caliphate! remember you must not foprget your roots. you must look back and see how turkey was before and what it is today! it is shocking to see that 20% of muslims in turkey are actualy practising! this is a complete disgrace to islam! turkey was once the firm foundation of this greatreligion from Allah! and today look at it!

    all i want ot say is that just look at the legacy of islam in turkey! look at the history of sultan muhammad II, he conquered turkey for you, he conquered constantinople and renamed it ISLAMBUL (not istanbul): The city of Islam. this is legacy has now truly been forgotten. o turks and muslims please bring back the Supreme OTTOMAN EMPIRE AND THE ISLAMIC CALIPHATE! dont forget who you are !

    • Cuneyt Isik says:

      I do not know who the hell are you, but those are not your business, go screw yourself and worry about your shitty country ok? And CALIPHATE are not coming back, they long gone moron.

  20. Ata Turk says:

    IF you dont have noble blood…I dont blame you indians for beaing jealous…..and you arabs is well………NE MUTLU TURKUM DIYENE!!!!!!!

    • Cuneyt Isik says:

      ISTE BUDUR….INDIANS OR ARABS….NO NOBLE BLOOD…THEY BOTH LIKE BRITISH IN THEIR COUNTRIES AND THEY PREFER TO LIVE BY THEIR RULES…..IN SHORT THEY HAVE NO HONOR OR PRIDE IN THEMSELVES…LET THEM BARK, IF THE DOG BARKS DONT EXPECT THE DOG BITE YOU, LET IT BARK….BECAUSE INDIANS AND ARABS ARE NOTHING BUT LITTLE SHITTY DOGS WHO HAS NO PRIDE….NE MUTLU TURKUM DIYENE

  21. io says:

    salaam to all brothers,
    is there a true Islamic state in the world today?Coz I myself find that politicians tend to mislead us in believing that their intentions is for the good of Islam.They shun the advice of ulamas and belittle these heirs of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh.There are people who are recognised by these governments as ulamas but what is to be these so called ulamas are led by ulterior motives for their own benefit.Islam should be strong with united beliefs and unrelentless faith that there is no other way to govern a country unless you return to the Koran and Hadith.Lets work towards this and stop bickering among ourselves and adhere to what Allah wants us to do on this world as his slaves.

    • Muslim says:

      Salam brother,

      There is no true islamic state in the world as of now. Even Saudi Arabia had European laws mixed with islamic laws.

      Frankly, the closest where there is a religious person at the head would be Iran (surprise!) Doesnt matter they are shias, in essence they still believe in Allah)

      May Allah forgive me if i provide you with the wrong info. Lets all pray to Allah to bring victory to all muslims in all places all over the world, bring back the khilafah which doesnt divide people by nation, which promotes free trade, which removes poverty, which encourages compassion, kindness, forgiveness, fairness in rule and judgement, morality, civic mindedness, which develops a culture of learning etc for Allah is the Most Gracious, Most Kind, Most Merciful, Most Forgiving, Most Loving, the All-Hearing, All-Seeing, All-Knowing , The Most High and Mighty, The Greatest. InsyaAllah, amin. May Allah guide us all to the right path and make us a most deserving ummat of Prophet Muhammad salallahu’alaihi wasalam.

      Oh im not shia btw =) dont forget to show others what Quran and Nabi preaches and make dua for others!

      Assalamualaikum warrahmatullahi wabarrakatu

  22. Azmanam says:

    I am a 42 year old Malaysian.

    Interesting to read all the various viewponts about MKA. However, my personal (albeit limited) observations and research about him is that, and despite what my brother Sadettin’s refutation, his so-called Kemalist Ideology has almost singlehandedly relegated the position of Islam in Turkey to that of a minor entity.

    Of which the most damaging is adopting a secular ideology for Turkey (which ironically does not give total freedom for muslims to dress and practice Islam in the proper sense). The practical day-to-day implications of this ideology has been the observation that most Turks I have had met (in college and via professional networking) do not even practice the BASIC of Islamic practices (Reciting the Shahadah, offering Solat, fasting in Ramadhan, giving out Zakat and performing the Hajj).

    My brothers and sisters in Trkey, despite your political inclinations, don’t you all agree that Islam is not a birthright and a muslim is defined according to what you practice?

  23. Assalaamu alaikum,
    I totally agree with the article. Ataturk was a shrewd criminal of Jewish origin whose only objective was to destroy Islam. What is a shame is that the Islamic institutions in Turkey were to weak to react. It would have been proper for the Caliphate at the time to realize what was happening and order his head cut off. Turkey is the only country in Nato that could stand up to the US. It could have prevented the invasion of Iraq and the only reason this has occured is because of the treacherous kemalists and their alliance with zionism. May Allah throw “ataturk” in hell fire and keep it there.

  24. crazy englishman says:

    mustfa gamal pasha too Turkish people from being the most honored people for 600 years to the gutter people. talk to people in the west in europe they say turkish men are dirty!!!!! thats honour ………mmmmmmm. the legacy of gamal pasha is that he destoyed the fabnric of intellectual thinking of individual thinking and experiences in favour of sytemic beaurocracy. Where people are forced to think in a kemalist stream or other suffer the fait of becoming austrocised or even worse be subject to kemalist thuggary.

    you say that gamal pasha gave you intellectual freedon unshackled you from a represive religion, heres something to ask yourself……say or ask your sisters and your mothers were you given a choicve when you were abused and raped by the kemalist, did you have a choice when you suffer depression because you cannot handle all the freedom. C’mon really lets be seriuos for one moment being naked half drunk sleeping around, debauchary this is freedon thisn is honour. wow lol you can stick to that then guys i’ll take the other road one where my sisters and my mothers are not common prostitute or treated like prostitue by the state, because if they dont act in that way they are “not being honorable to the kemalist cause” or not faithful the the nation.

    kemalist idiology was and is one dewstroying religion and any sence of individula experiencing, where experience should be through a state conscienceness like coimmunism, but the truth is this that the finger of subversion you throw to your islamic/ottoman root comes back on yourself. because insted of the sultanate/khaleef you have kemalist system and institutions run by the masonic devil goat worshipping puppet masters.

    lets get to the real deal secularism/hedonism/aithiem vs islam and how this should be reconciled for every person living in turkey whether moslem or not. this cannot be acdhieved by the kemalist trying to destroy the fabric of turkish history ie its islamic sufi roots, because more you isolate and margionalise the the muslim community the more vibrant and galvinised they will become….try to find the midddle road that is acceptable to both side that way turkey can move foward and no one will be felt left out and hopefully you’ll develope a turkey that accepts all its parts rather then rejecting it, otherwise the rejected part will become your poison challace and come back with such a vengence that the wave will be too strong for you to resist

    “mankind is like a rainbow made of many colours all with their won essences, but all form the rainbow of humanity” …..from the wisdon of celaluddin Rumi (the true attaturj)

  25. iceman says:

    Arabs and others always blame jews for this and that without any proof or evidence at all, they talk about ataturk getting rid of islam and turkey helping isreal/usa etc etc. Did they not forget that they betrayed the ottoman empire and sided with the west(brits etc) ****i guess they forgot they where muslims for those years. and as for the moghuls who the ottomans helped stay in power especially at the time of sultan suleyman and why they couldnt beat the brits, well the answer is simple the ottoman/turk military has always been far superior to whats the east has got to offer and numbers dont mean anything(quaility not quantity). if the turks decided to conquer the east instead of west they would’ve ruled the whole place very quick (at the time) ( like the seljuk turk empire did) but the west is where the real powers are and thats where they attacked (to take over istanbul is far harder than takeing over all of the eastern empires wether it be persian, moghul or whatever and anyone who knows anything about military warfare will know that, that being said im not saying there wasnt any powerful empires in the east at any time, there was(mongolians,huns etc im just makeing a point). Anyways back to the topic arabs say turkey helps isreal, well they should 1st look at themselves the isreali army has 20%+ arabs in it and who gives USa oil, money anything and everything it wants? ARAB nations especially sauidi arabia. Turkey today is plagued by corruption but it has a super powerful military and a strong economy witch is 1 of the fastest growing in the region and GDP to match, however its plagued by corruption and therefore money doesnt dribble down much to the common people of turkey. This problem is faced everywhere in the world and is nothing unique to turkey and hopefully abdullah gul and recep erdogan can fix this. So in conclution these arab and other fanatics always like to say bad things about turks/turkey/ottoman empire/ataturk etc because we ruled them for ages and did great things they could never do, so they are jealous against us. 1 more thing i want to say is how did the turks win those battles against the brits,french,russians, indians,senegalese,italian, australian, new zealand, etc etc including internal help against the turks like the armenians, greeks, kurds, arabs, assyrians etc etc there where so many enimies fighting the turks that you could say the world against turkey at the time.. And who did the turks have? only germany who actually helped, the turkic brothers of the turks where already overun by russia and the others who always talk about islam this and that like arabs BETRAYED the ottomans and sided with the attackers (note: the austrian-hungarian empire was on the side of the turks and germans in ww1 but no real help came from them or the others). So how did the turks survive? well to make things short every turk in the country went to war from young kids to old men to sick people any1 and every1 went, if some1 couldnt fight like a women or a man who is extremely sick or a kid who is to young would have other jobs like helping build weaponary or makeing food or anything that could help turks survive. Some people even ran to there death fighting against the allies with only the knife on top of there gun because at the time the ottomans had become broke, they had barely and money,weapons,food water or anything at all left. I just want to mention that even the students at the university of istanbul and every1 else left what they where doing and went to be a shahite. So bassically the dedication of the people the dissapline of the people the willingness to die the amazing strategy of all the generals especially attaturk and even the German general Limon Van Sanders who helped out in some supervising of turkish troops in certain areas was all testament to turks not becomeing a people without a country and surviving.( Look at what happened to the ”traitors” arabs (who are the biggest critisizers of turks, are extremely jealous and have deep hatred for turks wich they hide infront of your face but you know its in there hearts) they after sideing with the allied powers where tricked, then taken over after the ottomans left, then had there maps redrawn to whatever the brits and french felt like(not to mention most of the british soldiers had there way with there women and you can see plenty of evidence when you look at some egyptians, also look at the lebonese who the french cut from syria, then made it into a christian state because of the vast numbers of christian arabs in that area and had there way with there women. You can easily identfy this by the big number of strange looking arabs in that region with green and blue eyes, then theres kuwait wich they anexed from iraq, then theres isreal witch they created in 1948 and it just goes on and on. Lets now look at the moghuls and others in that region the british took over them very easily with very few number of soldiers who ran a area with a population of almost a billion people, so you can imagine who pathetic they where to be overun by a couple of thousand troops once they got conquered, there map also got redrawn by the brits and there women taken advatage of(eg anglo-indian girls etc) This is what was gonna happen to the turks but the iron hand of the ottomans and later turkey led by Attaturk made sure this never happened. Winston Churchills plans failed. id like to say 1 more thing regarding churchill, at the canakalle battle the allies where desperate because they didnt make any progress and the war was going bad for them not because of troop losses but because they lost a few dreadnaught battle ships and other battle ships witch the british being the most richest and powerfullest empire at that time only had about 28 dreadnaughts so you can imagine how important these ships where and what there worth( theres even a quote by 1 of the british generals who said they would rather lose all there soldiers than to have these dreadnaughts damaged or destroyed because of how important and expensive they where at the time, anyways towards the end of the battle and in desperation the british soldiers in the 1 of 3 landings sites( not the french or anzacs) got the order to use gas against turkish troops and even so they still couldnt take over because as soon as 1 died another 1 replaced him and so on. The turks where all willing to die everysingle 1 of them so this made it impossible for them and they got they order ro pull out because it was costing the FAR to much money and there was absolutely no progress in the campain, when Winston Churchill was asked about human rights for and why they used gas which is against human rights he replied ” turks are not human”. He also got kicked out for hes failures in ww1. heres another intersting quote from Churchill ” when we take over the ottomans im gonna put a dagger into the black evil heart of the calipha. These quotes are denied by the british but the turks confirm these quotes. Anyways im rambling on a bit but my point is Attaturk and the turks did what they had to do to survive, if they didnt do what they did there would be no turkey and in its place would be parts of greece, possibly armenia, kudistan and maybe some arab piece in the south east but not turkey and us turks wouldve been killed, harrassed and our women raped by all these people because as we all know turks are the 2nd most hated people in the world behind the jews. ( a good example is cyprus when the greeks started killing the turks, rapeing there women etc they complained to the world and asked for help but who helped? no1, eventually turkey invaded, took half of the country and saved those turks from being killed and kicked out of there lands. So imagine imagine if Ataturk and all those turks who died fighting didnt save turkey, who wouldve come saves us? i can guarantee you not those dirty arabs or any1 else. So even if your a turk and dislike ataturk you still must give not attack what he did because maybe now you wouldve been part armenian part british part french. instead of being a proud turk, you probably wouldnt have even been muslim anymore they couldve done anything to us, so as a turk we must be grateful for all attaturk, the generals the soldiers the kids, women, old men who faught for our survival. Wether your a kemailst, islamist, allevi or whatever we TURKS should always stay united and strong together because if we dont be 1 and help each other you tell me who is gonna help us?. As for the calipha well he had hes time and the ottoman empire had its time like the seljuk turk empire prior to that mustafa kemal got rid of the calipha but the kalipha and the empire was finished, for example when the kalipha calls for islamic nations to come fight or to do something somewhere they must do it, but who was listenening to the calipha? no1, was the arabs listenening obviosly not they where fighting against the ottomans/kailipha was there any other muslim nation or people on the face of the globe coming to save the kaliphate or the isliamic ottoman empire? NO. While at the same time the ottomans where fighting to save the remains of the empire that was left eg: jerusalam, mekkah and medinah because as an islamic empire they must fight to keep these places out of non muslim hand right, but the people who lived in those places dirty ARABS where fighting against the ottomans and sideing with the non muslims to kick them out of these lands wich they claimed was arab lands, so they wanted arab nationalism for all these areas and no more turks in those lands. This is where all the problem, so attaturk changed all that and made turkey into a secular state. This way the turk who have faught against west for ages can finally have peace with the west and didnt claim back any of the lands of the mid east. hence this way its the problem of the arabs and not of the turks anymore because from attaturk onwards turks dont give a crap about whats happening to the traitors in the arab lands. (note i didnt fix any spelling mistakes or the way it was written because whenever i tried to do so it would delete whats after what im typeing so to save time i just left it.)….. 1 last thing to any arab who says well it was only a certain groups of arabs who sided with the west and the other arabs didnt do anything well my answer to them is those arabs didnt do anything therefore it meant they where scared to fight but they wanted the ottomans out of those lands so its the same thing if they didnt want the turks gone they wouldve helped the turks but they didnt( though there was 1 group in makkah who sided with the ottomans but was defeated i forget there leaders name) but either way im sick of arabs talking all this crap about turks/turkey and attaturk, when they should be looking at there dirty arab selves…..

  26. iceman says:

    Im just going threw some of these comments made and 1 of them said turkey couldve prevented the war with iraq? what a joke. Lets look at what the iraqis did under saddam, they invaded iran because they faught they where powerful but then they found out they where WEAK they couldnt take over iran at there weakest in the returning of the ayatollah(how pathetic) there was nearly 1million dead on each side, then iraq invaded kuwait and got thrashed by the west which was all planned and they fell right into it that. Then there was a massive embargo which saw the death of nearly a million people mostly kids in iraq( Why didnt any of the arab nations send food across the border? why not sneak it threw? OK turkey didnt help iraq either but there secularist now but what about the sharia run saudi arabia? or any other arab nation they didnt even send a grain of food to the people of iraq at the time they needed it the most. Later the UN made the food for oil program for iraq. why doesnt any of you arabs mention this fact? or what about the fact that the 1st gulf war was paid by saudi arabia? or that saudi arabia knew exactly where most of the iraqi weaponary, missle silos, radars etc where and they supllied USA and its allies with this knowledge. There are nearly 250million arabs people within the arab regions from the middle east to north africa, why hasnt any of these nations helped iraq?(terror groups dont count) iraqis are arabs and theyre arabs. So dont try and blame turkey or kemalists for this and that, 1st look at yourselves.

  27. Moheet says:

    stop copy paste shit!!!

    • Cuneyt Isik says:

      LISTEN YOU LITTLE SHIT BUG, STOP COMMENTING ABOUT ATATURK YOU STUPID MORON….

    • Cuneyt Isik says:

      PEOPLE DO THINK OTHERS TAKE THE SAME ACTION LIKE THEIRSELVES. YOU SHIT BUG DO NOT THINK OTHERS COPY AND PASTE LIKE YOU DO, GO SCREW YOURSELF SHITBUG…

  28. iceman says:

    moheet i just went threw your point and want to answer some as best i can, 1. why have a kalipha when no1 is listening or helping him? eg arab betrayel, no help by any muslims while under attack etc etc…. 2 he banned hijab in government building, schools etc (state from religion) hes mother wore a hijab did he tell her to take it off aswell?NO…. 3 The changeing of the dialects to latin was for modernizing and going with the new world powers for example turkeys partially in europe and every1 new europe was on the rise at the time and you want to be able deal with your neighbors easily and not be left behind. as for reading the quran they can read it in turkish no big deal….. 4 He was gay? do you have picture evidence or proof from some1 who had sex with him? i bet not, changed hats etc well its time for a change moderfnizeing hats are just hats whats the big deal… 5 He was born in the ***Ottoman lands of greece its within the empire, if im a turk and born in malaysia am i a malaysian? NO i have turkish blood. Jealous people claim he is greek or jew but they have no proof.. He ran away from iran and syria? where did you get that from turks still occuppy a disputed teritory in south east turkey which syria claims is theirs and as for iran they got conquered a few times by the brits/russians/french… I doubt there are government run brothels, maybe if some1 got a licence from the government thats different but not government run. You can google indian/paki/arab any porn on the internet so dont try and make it look like its only turks doing this kind of stuff infact in these nations there are secret brothels that are super cheap like 10bucks for anything…. Turkey is a military run country because it has many minority problems if the islamists or the seculairists or the kurds or whoever wants to start trouble then the army keeps them under control, also you need a powerful military to keep the neighboring powers at bay europe and russia are right next door… Turkey monitors the mosques to make sure there is no raddicles or fanatics who preach…. in saudi arabia a sharia run country women cant drive or do anything. so in this sense women who want to wear the head scarfes can stay home and be a house wife, whats wrong in that, if they go to school with even there headscarves on they are gonna interact with men. this wouldnt be allowed in saudi. so i dont see any real difference in this.(actually thats a weak point but my point is where in the world are women being treated equally anyway? not in your part of the world either, look at the tribal stuff that happens in your lands a man dated a rich mans daughter and in return the rich man had there daguthers raped by them as punishment… Turkey hasnt done anything wrong with the kurdish situation in my oppionon they make an uprising killing civilian turks, mainly poor farmers who have nothing to do with or probably dont even know whats going on with the government and kurds. then when the turkish army comes and kills them they sulk like little girls( its pretty simple dont start nothing and there wont be nothing) you wanna be a big man killing defenseless people in the country side of turkiye, well when the real army gets their and wipes you all out dont sulk about it plz.. The kurds do atrocities against men women and children and obvioulsy when the f16s fly overhead there gonna get killed i have no sympathy for them… all those claims about angora etc are usual turk hate lies, ataturk or the modern turk army forced women in angora to reveil there faces from under there hijab? ohh plz man, ataturks mother wore a hijab so did he get her to take hers off aswell? i doubt it… Turkey recognizes isreal ok so does egypt, pakistan, jordan etc etc does turkey have soldiers in isreal?NO do they send f16s down there to help the jews?NO, all they do is business they buy the latest US weapons from the isrealis(whats wrong with that?) doesnt the arabs/pakis/afghans buy weapons from russia? well russia kills thousands of cechnys, daghestani muslims and they have oppressive governments in uzbekistan etc all oppressing muslims. I guess when your governments do business with russia your all forgetting there killing and oppressing all those muslims( by the way the cechen conflict makes palestine look like a picnic). 1 more thing i want to talk about is this islamic country idea, look at how afghanistan was under the taliban awful and crazy if this is your idea of an islamic state im not with that at all…

  29. iceman says:

    i havent coppied or pasted any of this, this is all my personal oppionons moheet.

  30. iceman,
    It was very interesting to read your comments (though they are too long ;) You give a different perspective of Atatürk and modern Turkey.

    “1 more thing i want to talk about is this Islamic country idea, look at how Afghanistan was under the taliban awful and crazy if this is your idea of an Islamic state im not with that at all…”

    I agree with you about the Taliban. But you must realized that the state they established in Afghanistan was a not the ideal Islamic State. Maybe they had good intentions of serving Allah and looked like a true Islamic country but actually their government was no better than the unislamic Royal family run government in Saudi Arabia. For example the Taliban did many unislamic awful things like not allowing girls to study, women to work, making it mandatory for men to grow beards and women to cover the whole body, shunning development and technology etc. From a Islamic perspective these are all unacceptable.

    So do I believe in a Islamic Government? Yes I do. I support the establishment of a Caliphate based on the Quran and Sunnah and encompassing all Muslim countries from Indonesia to Morocco. If you would like to know more about what this Caliphate looks like and how it functions please visit, http://caliphate.eu/index.htm

  31. iceman says:

    Muslim Nation 1, who are you bro? what nationality are you? and are you sunni or shia? if you dont mind me asking that is..

    Ill check out the caliphate link thanx…

    And sorry for makeing my comments really long but i tried to answer all of the peoples comments best i can and i tried to give a glimpse into what the turks was going threw at the time from my point of view and from what ive learnt about it…

    I have a question how did islam reach indonesia and malaysia? I know the ottomans sent in the 1300s, warships and soldiers to the indonesian island of aceh because they where under threat by some western country who wanted to colonize it, apparently the ottoman soldiers liked the place so much that they didnt go back to the ottoman controlled regions and stayed in aceh( thats why aceh has a moon crescent flag which is banned). Anyways how did indonesians and malaysians become muslim? does any1 know?

    I ask because i really like these people (there friendly and polite people) and from what ive seen on TV and read malaysia runs there country in a better way than even saudi arabia or any other muslim nation from an islamic point of view that is..

  32. Hello Iceman,
    Sometime back I read some articles about the history of Islam in Malaysia and Indonesia in this website.
    Malaysia – http://www.islamawareness.net/Asia/Malaysia/
    Indonesia – http://www.islamawareness.net/Asia/Indonesia/

    You can also try wikipedia for a overall view of these countries. Btw, I am a Sri Lankan and a Sunni Muslim.

    • Cuneyt Isik says:

      SRI LANKAN CURRY, DONT YOU HAVE ANY OTHER FUCKING THING TO DO, MORON. GO READ SOME BOOKS OR SPENT SOME TIME AT THE LIBRARY TO EDUCATE YOUR LITTLE BRAIN…

  33. Azmanam says:

    iceman,

    I am a malaysian muslim,

    Just a short one: We learnt during schooldays that islam was introduced into the country by muslim traders from India.

    Mmmm, maybe that’s why we aren’t that warlike like the turks and the afghans.

    As i recall, our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) manages to win over a fair amount of converts due to his exceptional work (trading) ethics.

  34. Enver says:

    Mustafa Kemal could fight his way, because it was the time of Revolution. from 1917 on Vladimir Lenin helped Mustafa Kemal to Destroy the Monarchy(Sultanat) of Osman, which was 1517 declared as a Caliphat from Yavuz Sultan Selim after conquering Kairo by beating the Mamluk (bodyguards of the abbasi caliphat. What means that possibly a declaration is not enough to become a caliphat,
    further A CALIFAT DOES NOT MEAN MONARCHY. So Mustafa Kemal did not cutoff the head of the Muslim-Nation, he just erased a mistake. Because he and his helpers knew what there knew, and so they make the next mistake.
    Sailed all profitable parts of the country to the strong Powers, monetery rules now. Capitalizm
    . Moneymoneymoney. but the 20. Century is over. now its the 16. Century….

  35. Enver says:

    The Totaltakeover, by european Countrys, of Terretories which where mostly populated by muslim, happened during the 1. Worldwar.
    1914
    France, Russia, Britain, Germany, Austria, Italy
    started a War, a War of Material for Material,
    not for any other Ideal, like democracy, socializm or freedom only the USA did… joke, even those did it for the Money. All of those Countries had a differnt point of view but the same interrest to get it: Control over Istambul.

  36. Enver says:

    but these Powers was not independent that times:

    1. Germany, depends on Ressources from others, therefore need a lot of Money.

    2. Greatbritain needs Money for Naval Supremacy

    3. France same like Germany

    4. Russia needs food and weapons

    All was dependent on money and the ottoman “Empire” was the Cake or better the turkey.
    The most Financing of the first WW was from the Rothschild Family which just had only one wish: the holy land for Jews and they promissed
    to help those Country to win the War which would give this Terretories to the Jews. Only GB accepted 1916 after the Gelibolu (Galipoli) desaster the gouvernment changed in London and the new team was Zionistfriendly so they got more money and Informations to win the war, Germany was getting these things too from Rothschild family, but after 1917 they got only wrong Information and Sabotage from them, to make Britain winning the war, to get the holy land… clear so far? after the war there was only one danger in long terms, the ottoman empire could strike back to reconquer Jerusalem. so this Empire had to be erased and never let happen again a caliphat, to save the alrady planned Jewish State in the holy land….
    Thats the Deal… Israel can only survive when moslems and Islam are weak… therefore always warfare in those states which try to get moslem.
    waalaikumselam.
    Enver Pasha this was the real Idiot not Mustafa Kemal. Enver take over the Power in Istambul in 1908 by putting Sultan Abdulhamid in Prison (former declared Caliph) with help from Germany, after he was totally addicted to Germany and he declared turkish nationalizm, so the Germans could lead the ottoman Army so there wasn’t muslims controling the muslim Army and the Rothschilds get all the information and used against muslims, for Jews… this jewish Family is Evil, not all Jews are… so it happened that all the Power of ottoman Army was ordered by Germans to defend Istambul and only Istambul they leave Jerusalem Mekka Medina very weak, so that the English could use the Arabs with arab nationalizm against the turkish with turkish nationalizm, so Germany and GB worked together to beat the muslims by let them fight each other, the muslims didn’t weak up yet.
    That germany, France, britain, russia worked together (by beeing officially enemies(show for the moslems)) you can see in that fact: that all churches and parliaments in Europe was celebraiting the Conquering of Jerusalem by GB 1917, even Germany which was “defending” this city… they send Enver(the idiot) against russia with the rest of the ottoman Army so that Jerusalem couldn’t be defendet and the Arabs worked with the British because of the ugly nationalizm of Enver(the idiot) so the muslims don’t look to each other anymore…
    Muhammed (sav.) said: My people listen too me, you should always know, that all muslims are brothers…ect.
    but no one seems to be interessted anymore in Islam so that the end of the world is near my Brothers….
    i’m getting tired to tell all of this again and again…

    Salam alaikum

  37. mughal soldier says:

    this is all shit u wrote enver
    if mka was to be a great leader not a spy then why;

    1 Destroyed Caliphate as result Muslims being killed in Iraq, Bosnia, Palestine..etc.
    2 Banned hijab in Turkey
    3 Changed Arabic letters to Latin in Turkey, so that new muslim generation would be lost and have NO connection to the Islamic roots.
    4 Cancelled all Islamic holidays.
    5 He was NOT even a Turk, leave alone father of turks, he was born in Greece.
    6 He Killed 1000s of Turks & Kurds who Rebelled (e.g. Seyh Sait rebellion in southeastern Turkey which claimed nearly 30,000 lives before being suppressed)

    How Ataturk destroyed Islam in Turkey?
    http://tinyurl.com/2k5g7q

    in Turkish
    http://tinyurl.com/34cz9u

    More on him
    http://tinyurl.com/2zohjs

    Here look what tyrant kemalists are doing:
    http://tinyurl.com/2toedq

    Blakstone’s song-traitors:
    http://tinyurl.com/2x5zsn

    moreover why he recited a JEWSISH PRAYER/////

    he was a bloody spy…who broke backbone of muslims…may allah throw him in hell and keep that traitor there forever

  38. Wasim says:

    Comment deleted by blog Administrator

  39. Shah says:

    some1 above talked about true islam, i guess he must be inspired by people like mustafa kamal, Salman Rushdie & Musharraf etc, who think that for the past 1400 yrs no1 has been able to understand Islam but them………
    well as for Mustafa kamal, well he did well for Turkey, but destroyed Islam, i ask his followers that doeschanging ur clothing, the text of your language and ur whole identity make one modern?
    certainly not because if that were the case then Turkey should have become a far greater super power than it once was under the Ottomans and more importantly under Islam, instead of begging europeans to be included into the EU.
    The europeans came to eliminate Islam from europe in the WW1, they couldnt but Mustafa Kamal did it for them.
    May Allah bless Turkey and Pakistan and the whole muslim umma…….

    salaam!

  40. emine says:

    “”Yusuf Ali Abdullah // May 3rd 2007 at 10:14 pm

    What is a shame is that the Islamic institutions in Turkey were to weak to react. It would have been proper for the Caliphate at the time to realize what was happening and order his head cut off. Turkey is the only country in Nato that could stand up to the US. It could have prevented the invasion of Iraq and the only reason this has occured is because of the treacherous kemalists and their alliance with zionism. “”

    bro what you fail to understand is every muslim nation today and then is in a similar situation. zionism is controlling every muslim nation today. so ur abrupt criticism of the turks isnt really fair. lets not forget that abdul hamid didnt even sell jerusalem to the jews even after all that intimidation. but the arabs sided with anti-muslims, including lawrence and attacked turks… and you know the rest. we had greeks, russians, armenians all against us. so many enemies.. we were alone. even our muslim brother nations committed crimes against us. and yet if it wasnt for the turks the position of the middle east would be far worse. i just want you to see the whole picture.
    salams

  41. iceman says:

    mughal soldier

    1. How did ataturk destroy the caliphate? The arabs already betrayed the caliphate, no1 in the world was coming to the aid of the caliphate to save it, was pakistanis or afghans or any1 coming from overseas to save the ottoman state and the caliphate it had? NO… By the time ataturk was in power and kicked the caliphate out, the caliphate had no power anyway. So it makes no difference. And Yes the people in palestine,cechnya etc etc would still be dieing either way. so its not ataturks fault but the fault of the global muslims and on top its the arabs fault. At least the others didnt betray.

    He changed the arabic dialect(not language) but so? you can still read the koran, the people of turkey hated arabs at the time anyway so i doubt any1 went against this. Is reading arabic or being arab or following arab culture islamic? i dont think so.( you see westerner converts that are better muslims and they cant read arabic).

    He was a Turk, the turks owned greece when he was born, so hes turk by blood. If your a pakistani born in the UK are you british or pakistani? you pakistani. Its about blood not where your born.

    You say he killed 1000s of people in the south east, they where majority 99% Kurd and they had a marxist ideology and at the heart of it all they wanted a kurdish state. So its good he killed them infact they shouldve killed more of them.

    • Abdul Qadir says:

      ICEMAN: Learn how to spell the word “Quran” in the proper Islamic way first, before blabbling about your beloved Ataturk’s seemingly just idealogies and rulings. And stop putting all the blame entirely on Arabs and Kurds, when all the muslims today regardless of what nationality they are from, are to blame for the downfall of the Islamic Caliphate. You fool don’t you understand? You can’t understand the true meaning of the Quran without learning Arabic. In other words the beauty of the Holy Quran can not fully encompass your heart, unless you are able to explain in depth the meaning of the Quranic verses via Arabic translation. Stop blabbling about such useless and vain talk, and fix your extreme nationalism towards your country, and excessive hatred towards arabs and kurds, before you reply with anything else. Shame on you! The prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam, the beloved messenger of Allah and the mercy of the whole of mankind was an Arab. All your abuse towars arabs:arabs already betrayed the caliphate,so its not ataturks fault but the fault of the global muslims and on top its the arabs fault, is directed towards Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam. The simple fact is: just because someone is of a particular race doesn’t mean he is the one responsible for the downfall of the Islamic Caliphate. It is one’s character that determines this. The saying “If you can change yourself , you can change the world”, clearly adheres to this. First change your attitude, you filthy Ataturk worshipper, before you post any more comments.

  42. Aurangzaib says:

    iceman

    You are the perfect example of a brain washed Kamalist. What ever you are saying is what you have learned about the Gaymal Pasha during your childhood by reading books written by Kamal (sorry Gaymal Pasha’s) supporters. Arabs and nationalist Turks are both responsible for Fall of Caliph, now there is no need to argue and cry , just wake up all Muslims and unite. Start Islamic revolution from Turkey itself.

  43. iceman says:

    Aurangzaib

    -I have read all sides of the modern turkish\ottoman\seljuk history and from different points of views from the islamic to the western historical view point. So im NOT brain washed at all.
    -Everything i stated was my personal oppionon on the matter of the ottoman state and the calipha and what turkey was faceing at the time. I never said mustafa kemal pasha was an angel, he just had to do what he had to do thats all.(its not like there was many other choices).
    -You didnt even give an answer or a counter response to any of the arguements i put forward. For example where was all the other muslims when the ottoman caliphate was being attacked? i guess they where sleeping?zzzzzzzzzz.

  44. iceman says:

    As for this islamic state idea, in my oppionon if turkey is ever gonna become a islamic state ever again it has to put forward to the turkish people a NEW islamic state idea seperating itself from the other nations which declared thereself an islamic state only to show to the world a whole bunch of crazy stuff like beheadings,stoneings,women not being able to work, backwardness(in the sense of no devolpment in technology,education etc), no fairness or even value for human life.
    So because when you represent the idea of an islamic state to any1, they immediately think about afghanistan or african nations or saudi arabia as what it will be like and if this is the case then no1 will ever want it. So if turkiye is ever gonna be an islamic state then it will need a NEW islamic state concept.

  45. I says:

    Seems to me that all of you put together couldn’t make a country be it Islamic or other. You are so caught up in the past that you seem to have no future. In the past you all killed each other and your future looks the same. I don’t think your god wanted it to be this way, at least I wouldn’t think so. So knock that chip off your shoulder and try to live like your god would want you to ( happy and content). And remember not everyone is going to be or believe just like you. You are not the author just actor in his play.

  46. Aurangzaib says:

    iceman

    I believe you have not red history written by Muslims about Ataturk, a Muslim historian who back Ataturks ban on headscarf, on Islamic teaching, Islamic way of life and morality can never be a Muslim himself. I agree with you that many western and Turkish (hypocrites) historians have praised Ataurk that mostly for his anti – Islamic stands in the pretext of freedom and secularism.

    When we say Islamic state we purely mean the way Ottoman’s were, most powerful and justifiable. I have several real Muslim Turkish friend who them selves don’t like Ataurk for his deed.

    To Include Turkey in future Islamic nation it is not at all necessary to take consent of Turks like you. In Turkey nearly 35% are Kurds and that will always support any Islamic nation, out of Turks at least 40% are pro-Islamic.

    Muslims around the world will always hate Gaymal Pasha, what ever his supporters might say about him; Ataturk’s hatred for Islam is visible every where in Turkey. We Muslims don’t need any proof that he was good, his evil deeds can bee seen in all part of Turkey.

  47. Cengiz says:

    What i am about to say is not about taking sides, its about trying to understand and comprehend the truth of past events. However i feel that we shall never know, as many secret societies have no doubt had there part to play.

    Under God we are all the one and the same. Yes, I am Turkish, but these titles are only temporary.

    During the Ottoman fall Arabs tend to forget that they sided with the British and were killing all Turks. We were the great Satan, and you followed Lawrence of Arabia, somewhat foolishly some would say. Later Arab states were founded under British and French mandate, bombing any resistance.

    What was planned for turks by these powers was complete and gradual extermination, just read the treaty of sevres. Maybe Ataturk was a mason in the beginning, but he fought at the front lines. When a state was established he closed down all lodges and banned the very act of secret collusion, stating that these powers were a great ill to the world. He also placed education of great importance and when people could read, he distributed many Quran’s freely. Also at that time im pretty certain Arabs had an incredibly high illiteracy rate. The irony being that by educating Turks, most Turks now were able to read the quran.

    Also remember the very act of creating a sharia law is anti Islamic, for the Quran tells us this, so by separating state and religion in many respects is more Islamic then enforcing it.

    I could go on and on, however what’s the point really, can we really be certain any of what we hear is evidence?

  48. Aurangzaib says:

    Mico, so according to you the population of the country becomes bastard when it is occupied by other country?. Hope this is a logic in Gaymal Pasha’s way?. You are a perfect example of a brain washed Kamalist Turk, your forfather example all Osmanians captured current Turkey for Islam and not for your barbaric Mongol Turkish nationanlism, they took it for Islam. You are at the Land of Istanbul and other parts of Turkey because of these great Sultans and not because of Gay Kamal Pasha. In the battle of Gallipo he was able to defeat the foreign army because of Pure Muslim officers and soldiers who belived that Kamal (Gaymal) Pasha is a true Muslim and hence they supported him. Kamal Pasha(GayTurk) showed is real Satanic face only when he became president. Turkey will be liberated soon from Gaymalist gays who are biggest enemy of Islam,. O Muslim unite and liberate the land of Fatih Mahmmod from the barbarians and bring the Khalifah back.

  49. Muhammad Al Faatih says:

    1. iceman is NOT a Turk. He is an anti-Islamic Kemalist nationalist and fanatic. The Turkish Jamhooriya (Arabic for Republic, in Turkish form “Cumhurriyet”) is based on a rejection of Ottoman values and traditional Turkish culture. You will see however in the interior or Turkey, in Anatolia in cities such as Kayseri, Konya, Erzurum and other places that people are still quite close to their traditional Ottoman Turkish culture and proud of it. Islam is the basis for the existence of Turkey, because even when AtaPUT (A word many Turks use to describe that bastard, meaning father of Idols) destroyed the Khilafah he forced all Muslims in Anatolia to declare themselves as Turks, this included Larz Muslims, Hemsin, Greek speaking Muslims, Muhajirs (Arabic word for immigrants, Turkish form “Muhacirlar”) who came from the Balkans and Caucasus to all call themselves Turks as he wanted a mono-ethnic state. He also promoted ridiculous theories such as the as the sun theory and others including how Turks are a super-race and that all languages come from Turkish.

    Even in Turkey today many people acknowledge that there are 27 different ethnicities within the country. This is one thing die-hard Kemalist fanatics such as iceman do not like to acknowledge, even Erdogan himself is in origin a Georgian and not an ethnic Oguz Turk.

  50. Muhammad Al Faatih says:

    The late Alija Izetbegovic (rahmatullahi alaih) was one of the only leaders who when he visited Turkey refused to go to the mausoleum of the dead military dictator AtaPUT. Izetbegovic in his literature spoke of what a great state the Ottoman Khilafah was in comparison to the current Turkish Jamhooriya. He condemned the change of the alphabet. He said Japan, whose script is far more complicated and difficult, than Arabic has achieved great industrial and economic progress. We see that the UAE which has Arabic script is now a big centre of international finance and that Pakistan is a nuclear power, and that Iran has also made great strides (By the way, the senior leaders in Iran are ethnic Turks, both Ahmadi nejad and Khameinei are Azeri Turks). The changing of the Arabic script destroyed Anatolian Muslims (who according to many are majority ethnic non-Turks) connection to their history and culture. For example it is like a Chinese military dicator coming and forcing all Chinese to use a Latin script when for centuries they have had their own script, just as for centuries the Turks had their own Ottoman script (based on Arabic, just as the English, French and German alphabets are based on Latin).

    It seems for Kemalist fanatics and Islam-haters such as iceman, the script of the Quran is not good enough, but he prefers the script chosen by dead drunk military dictator AtaPUT.

  51. Muhammad Al Faatih says:

    The deep-state in Turkey engages in North-Korea style brainwashing. In the Communist USSR people were raised to worship Lenin and in North Korea people are raised to worship their dictator. AtaPUT is presented as some sort of super-human hero. However even Kemalists such as iceman and Gavurlar (Kafirs, non-Muslims) such as Mico cannot deny that he died due to heavy drinking. He was an alcoholic.

    AtaPUT was an agent whose goal was to destroy the Khilafah and de-Islamize Turkey. He was far from a great military leader.

    In Turkey the deep-state refuses people to be taught about great generals such as Kazım Karabekir or Fevzi çakmak who defended Anatolia from Gavurlar (Kafirs, non-Muslims e.g. Mico) because they want people to think it was only AtaPUT who defended Turkey, when in fact he was a coward who died of heavy drinking and whose own wife disliked, to the extent that in Turkey now, Latife Hanim’s diaries about AtaPUT are banned.

    May Allah bless Kazım Karabekir and Fevzi çakmak for defending Anatolia. May Allah bless the Turks, Kurds, Larz, Muhacirlar and all other Anatolian Muslims who united because they were all Muslims against the Gavurlar (Kafirs e.g. Mico).

    Kemalist fanatics like iceman believe in Turkish racial superiority just as his heroes Hitler and AtaPUT believe in racial superiority, however in Islam all people are equal even in the current Turkish Jamhooriya:

    Erdogan is originally Georgian.

    Bulent Ecevit was Larz.

    Kenan Evran was originally Albanian.

    Hikmet Cetin is a Kurd.

    Where is this racial superiority that AtaPUT-worshippper and his Gavur friend, Mico talk about? However in Iran, Ahmadinejad and Khameini are ethnic Turks.

  52. Muhammad Al Faatih says:

    I do not believe in the Turkish Jamhooriya. Jamhooriya is an Arabic word and has never been used by practising Muslims, it has however been used by Baathists and others. Gavurlar like Mico want Turkey to become like an Arab Baathist Jamhooriya which turns its back on the outside world and has a semi-military government.

    The stupidity of these two AtaPUT worshippers can be seen when they insult Kurds. Most Kurds in Turkey hate the terrorist PKK. Just like iceman, mico and their hero AtaPUT, the PKK are secular and anti-Islamic. Most Kurds in Turkey are proud of the Ottomans but are not happy with what AtaPUT did to them or the Jamhooriya.

    May Allah destroy the Jamhooriya and bring back Al-Khilafah.

    Long live the AK party, MHP and BBP.

    NE MUTLU MUSULMAN DIYENE.

  53. Muhammad Al Faatih says:

    So brothers please remember that Nazi boy iceman who believes in racial superiority is NOT A TURK. If you ask him, he probably has mixed blood e.g. Balkan, Circassian, Larz or whatever but I doubt he has any Oguz Turk blood. However that does not matter. Despite his praise for Erdogan and Gul, it is clear he is some sort of CHP fanatic and Nazi AtaPUT worshipper.

    NE MUTLU MUSULMAN DIYENE.

  54. Aurangzaib says:

    My brother Muhammad Al Faatih, it was nice to read your opinion may Allah unite all Muslims around the world and bring back the Khalifah. so no one will dare to attack Muslims. Ameen.

    Allah Hu Akbar…
    May Allah burn Ataput (lol) in the hell. ameen.

  55. iceman says:

    Mohamed al Faatih

    1. I am a turk and im not anti islamist.

    2. All ethnic races in turkey are majority turkic eg azeri,laz,georgian turks, tatars etc people in the regions of bosnia,georgia etc etc have been racially mixed to be turks by the long rule of the ottoman empire and seljuk empire of certain regions. except for kurdish who claim to be a different race however there is barely if any pure blooded kurds in turkey at all but thats OK there apart of turkey aswell. But all previous so called islamic uprisings of kurds in turkey that was mentioned here are nationalistic,marxist etc not islamic at heart. So i have no sympathy for there deaths because they ussually made a violent uprising against the turkish people and government..(they are scum who deserved what they got).

    3. Also where turks, there is no need to call ourselves laz or tatar or whatever anymore ataturk was smart in doing this because he identified that tribal labelling of groups could lead to disunity and infighting like the arabs have in there region today. look at any arab or african nation people are in certain tribes and they hate other tribes even though they are all arabs they seperate each other by these means, they only marry there certain tribes and not others, they kill each other etc.. ataturk made sure stupid things like this dont happen… Disunity and infighting was a major cause of the of the decline and fall of the ottoman empire, i dont care if some1 is tatar or laz or whatever where all turks, I dont care if a turk or any1 is sunni, shia or sufi where all muslims. People who want to label groups and religions can go live in the arab countries and kill each other like animals for no real reason..

    4. Ataturk was a man who drank to much no1 is denying this fact, no1 is perfect. i never said every little thing he did to turkey was good all i said is he done good for turkey and he did what he had to do for turkeys survival at the time. What else could they have done at the time with all the worlds powers attacking the ottoman empire?

    5. You call mico a kafur, whats with that? if you dont agree with some1 you attack them. I find this with many muslims who preach this and that but are of bad character towards others who say something that they dont agree with or that is against there thoughts. Why not give your view against mico instead of attacking him and maybe he would agree with you. Wouldnt you rather bring a muslim brother into line and make him correct his mistakes, than instead of makeing him dislike u and your type and makeing it a us and them situation…

    6. You talk about what i said about the kurds in turkey(most likely your a kurd), if you claim ataturk or his regime was resposible for killings of kurds well it is justified because they are either killing turkish civilians(including kurds) or where trying to create a country of there own by help of the europeans. And you say what ataturk did to them? if you mean takeing away islamic values etc well your lieing because turkeys laws never reach to far into the east of turkey eg ezrum,kars,diyarbakir etc The turkish government doesnt really bother the people of the east and all these things about headscarves etc have never really been implemented in the east of turkey by the government even up to current times.. Me and my parents used to live in ezrum and the people living there and all in the eastern region follow old school rules ( Its most likely the same way they used to live as under the ottoman rule).. If kurds want to make a better turkey then help and work with the people in power and stop complaining all the time…

  56. iceman says:

    …After ww1 and the treaty of versailes was signed by the ottoman empire you tell me how******** the ottoman empire and khaliffa was supposed to survive? maybe they shouldve gone and told the traitor arabs to help?lol.. maybe they shouldve let the kafurs rule us and become bastards in our own nation? like the arabs and the other people became. If it wasnt for the unity of the turkish people under the leadership of ataturk and others***** then you wouldve possibly been living in armenia now and your name wouldve been john. there wouldve been no more turkey and our culture, our religion, our ethnicity, our women everything we hold true and dear to our hearts wouldve been lost….. So even if ataturk did bad after he came into power he still done good aswell… So i see no need to insult ataturks shortcommings wether alcohol or whatever…… Dont forget what all the turks where saying when being attacked by the world powers, they where saying a turk has no friends accept for a turk…

  57. Mohammed Aaqil says:

    I prefer calling the man as “Ata-shaitaan” as he is the father of the Iblees. May Allaah put him in the “Dark-al-asfal” with hipocrites in the hell.

  58. benjaminfreedman says:

    salamu alykom

    there is strong proof that points that mustafa kamal was a member of the salanoka donmeh sabtay community , the man is undercover jew not a muslim
    read about here and here
    http://www.radioislam.org/ataturk/jewish.htm
    http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith-Rafiq-24Aug2007.html

  59. Asim Rauf says:

    Ameen, Brother Mohammed Aaqil. He was not only At-Shaitaan but he was Ata-gay also. He was the first Homosexual to have reached at president level. May Allah put all azab and Kabira and Sagira on hime for his sins. Ameen.

  60. Daniel Chew Singapore says:

    Iceman, what makes you so confident that the Caliph and the Caliphate system could not survive after WW1 and turn Turkey back to the superpower of envy? – Food for thought.

    To me, the Arabs were the real cause to the disintegration of the Caliphate system that they themselves once championed and aspire to re-establish (at least in theory). Not all Arabs that is, just those minorities who are currently in power and whom were historically “installed” by the Americans and Europeans after their misled and sponsored uprising against the Caliphate. Didn’t they notice they were only the tools for the Americans and Europeans who were looking at the bigger picture for world domination. Couldn’t they settled their problems with the Caliphate entity without destroying it and carving it to become lesser, less-united and weaker nations. They could have kicked the few bad apples out from the Caliphate but maintain its entity and unity of the peoples of the Caliphate.

    The Arabs have themselves to blame, for if the Caliphate was still in existence, three quarters of the proven oil reserves together with a load full of other essential natural resources such as uranium, gold, phosphate, natural gas etc to name a few as well as a giant pool of human capital and millions acres of land would still be under the domain of the Caliphate. Just imagine the magnitude of power that can be generated and wielded with that kind of resources. The Caliphate as an entity, could have re-developed itself into a politically, economically and militarily juggernaut which dominates the world as it has done for a few centuries before and could have become the only superpower today instead of the USA which is very dependent on all these resources. This concentration of resources was just what the USA and most Europeans countries were very afraid of and which led them to pull their resources together and all out to deny the Caliphate the monopoly which was in the palms of its hands at the turn of the last century. Divide and conquer was the policy. And the Arabs and the Muslims world in general are still reeling and unaware of these policy against them which had made them weak and dependent, almost to the extent of becoming a phariah or a second class citizen of the world. Latest case in hand: Iraq and the Kurdish factor.

    Its time for the Turks, Persians, Indians, Arabs and other Muslims to look further at the bigger picture and not just until their colonial masters’ carved borders. If the Muslims countries from the north African Atlantic to China and from Nigeria to Malaysia could once again unite, the world would be at their feet and mercy. A brand new and more equal World Order according to the Islamic principles could be established. But they themselves have to endavour for it for no one would do that for them.

  61. aky says:

    i hope the new pro islamic government liberates turkish muslims to islam. the situation in turkey is improving alcohol is being restricted and the headscarf ban is close to being lifted. but still hardly anybody eats proper halal meat most of the food in supermarkets is killed just like it is in the west only villagers actually kill their animals properly….as for ataturk the gay jew who destroyed betrayed islam i hope he burns in hell. the miltiary is the only reason turkish is still secular the younger generation i brainwashed with ataturks ideology. i am a young muslim born in england the islamic community and spirit here is great the government gives muslims more right in the uk than turkey wjen only around 3% of england is muslim compared to 98% in turkey.
    i hope the turkish realize ataturk was a fake and are guided to the right path. turkish men have lost honour as somebody posted earlier many non-muslim girls i know who have been to turkey say the turkish were dirty and after them all the time. I believe this because of ataturk and how he alienated turks from islam and honour.

  62. ozgun says:

    your argument is full of assertions not arguments. you do not back up what you say with clear viable evidence.

    i am a Turk studying history and politics in a top London university.
    this piece of writing is in my view ANTI-ATATURK PRO-ISLAMIST PROPAGANDA.
    it is incredibly one sided.

    readers beware: this is an assertion not an argument. no evidence!

  63. eson says:

    Yes u can live in england how ever u want but u cant live in an arab country how ever u want is this freedom? İn which country we can see tolerance of islam? İn saudi arabia, in iran,ıraq?None of these islamic countries but only in democratic republics.
    Thats way there cant be an islamic state in turkey because of the turkish caracter,Turkish caracter is free not like your slave caracter.The religion (islam) is forcing people to obey the religiom rules and lining the life in your arab countries and all the world is see this. İndividual freedoms are only based in secular constituonal ruled countries thats the truth and turkish people have tasted the freedom once because of their free caracter.
    Because of the secular system in turkey İslam is still a religion not a political ideology like in arab countries.
    Because of the secular system islam belongs to people in Turkey not to state or a royal family like urs….
    Because of the secular system islam is clear in turkey not dirty and bloody like in other barbaric lands.

  64. mobigg says:

    To Sadettin:
    The fact you claim that the british where a very strong enemy is indeed true.But to say that the turks and attaturk are so great just because they fought and won the british is WRONG. The iraqees aswell have fought against the british after an declaration that it wasn’t allowed to be under non muslim occupation and the british left that same year.So don’t think they are an enemy that is hard to defeat.

  65. TheGreatKhan says:

    What mobigg says is true, although the British did leave a traitor as a puppet monarch behind, the Iraqies did force the British out in only 1 year while it took the Turks 4 years .
    The Iraqies forced them out because they knew that occupation under non-Muslims was haram .
    I wish that AtaJerk had realised this .
    Because of him the Turkish society has indeed become a “thorn society”.

  66. iceman says:

    As usual you arabs are wrong about what happened in history(still live in a dream world) the 1920 rebellion was crushed by the british with air power( and the only reason the rebellion happened in the 1st place was not because of iraqis being ruled by kafurs but because the brits taxed the iraqs worse than the ottomans did, so they rebeled), So the british wanted the iraqis to stay quiet like good little boys so they put a puppet government in place (a monarchy King faysal, this way they can still control the oil fields without any PATHETIC iraqi distractions. . So NO the arabs never ever kicked out any1 from there country. infact people who rule there country ussually ran it better than them…

  67. iceman says:

    By the way all you guys talk about an islamic state this and that but when afghanistan was ruled by the taliban i didnt hear about any muslims immagrateing to afghanistanor saudi arabia or iran, instead i heard of people running away from that country. But on the other side of the coin, you SULKS are always BEGGING to immagrate into western countrys(kafur countries) with kafur laws(democracy).. In my oppionon democracy is what turkey needs and should stick with, In democracy your FREE to do what you want, be religious, non religous or whatever. Who the hell wants some hairy arab telling you what to do..

  68. Karadeniz says:

    Well said Iceman.
    These morons beat the same old tired drum and always blame Turkey for the demise of their primitive lives. If Turkey was the great reason for the downfall of the Caliphate and we are still in the same position today as we were hundreds of years ago, what does that say about the lack of leadership coming out of your own country! Where were your visionary leaders?

    The fact is in Turkey, you have the CHOICE to live a pious and peaceful Islamic lifestyle, or a person who does not practice. In a district in Istanbul you have a mosque, church and synagogue all near each other. The head of the OIC is Turkish (Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu), and yet the head of Christian Orthodox church is based in Istanbul!

    I have 2 uncles who are hadj and I have other uncles who love to drink! yet neither person has bad opinion of each other, its their choice!! you choose your path, you walk down it.

    wake up everyone please!

    • Ahmet Barut says:

      Hi Karadeniz,

      “The fact is in Turkey, you have the CHOICE to live a pious and peaceful Islamic lifestyle” That’s partly false, women are not allowed to where their head scarves in universities and workplaces. Where in Europe they are allowed, how ironic is that. A Muslim country denies their own people to practise their religion freely. I thought democracy and secularism was about freedom. Where is it?? People can’t even express their views about religions role in the country, I thought democracy and secularism was about freedom of speech. Where is it?? Have you forgotten that Islam is what made the Turks great? Haven’t you noticed that when Mustafa Kemal lead us to independence in WW1, instead of restoring Islam he replaced it with the enemies inferior European Ideology. Don’t you find that strange? He even made us dress the way they dressed and change our whole alphabet in to latin. The language of the very people who tried to destroy us in the first place. They have actually succesfully managed to colonise us without us even noticing. I mean even the some so called Muslims in Turkey celebrate christmas, they but trees and have images of santa claus. They pay more attention and give more importance to everything european and western or whatever is anti islam. Basically trying to say everything European is better. Turklugumuzu coktan kaybettik. Do you even know what most western people think about Turkey and Turks in general? I was born in the West and I’ve heard the same thing my whole life. They have a misconception that we are dirty, treacherous and savage people and they think Turkey is a poor underdeveloped country. And this is the Europe you look up to. Is this the legacy of ataturk you were hoping for? Most europeans don’t even know who ataturk is.

  69. Sh. Ismail Bin'alim says:

    As salamu alaykum, May Allah (SWT) have mercy on all Muslims, past, present & future. I have been to Turkey, mash’Allah, it is beautiful land. Islam is strong within the old country, while fitnah reigns in the western part of Turkey.

    But what breaks my heart is reading sites like this. Subhan’Allah. Unless you have SOLID proof that Mustafa Kemal Pasha Ataturk is NOT Muslim, then you are commiting sin against Allah (SWT). It is not ok to speak ill against anyone…peroid. Read Surah Al-Humazah (104). The Khalifah was destroyed because WE MUSLIMS allowed it to be destroyed. It was us who abandoned salat, us who started drinking, us who started fornicating, and us who destroyed Islam. What is my proof? Look right here. Muslims attacking each other because of the thoughts of others. We Muslims need to SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO ALLAH (SWT). Everything we need to have success is right here in Qur’an. EVERYTHING!!! When Rasul-Allah (SAWS) gave his last khutbah, he said, “I leave you with these TWO books, (Qur’an and His Sunnah).” Whoever adds or takes away is not of the Ummah.

    BROTHERS & SISTERS, PLEASE, WE WILL NEVER SEE ISLAM VICTORIOUS UNTIL WE STAND TRULY UNITED AS ONE BODY. THE HAND CANNOT FUNCTION WITHOUT THE ARM, AND THE FOOT CANNOT FUNCTION WITHOUT THE LEG. YET NONE CAN FUNCTION WITHOUT THE HEART, AND THE QUR’AN IS OUR HEART.

    Forget about what so-and-so did 80 years ago. Stand up, Unite, show Allah (SWT) your Islam, and He will show the Muslims Victory.

    Oh Allah, make us of those who believe, and make of those who stand for Your cause, and make of those who die for Your Sake.

    P.S. I am only a Muslim. Allah knows all things Best.

    As salamu alaykum

  70. Sh. Ismail Bin'alim says:

    What is the number one strategy when trying to conquer your opponent? Divide and Conquer. Why fight when your opponent will fight themselves. Then you just come in and clean up.

    It happened then, and wallahi, it is still happening now. Quit fighting ourselves. Just agree to disagree, and let us be one.

    Ameen

  71. Melisa says:

    To the person who wrote this biased article about Ataturk:

    Who are you to talk this way about a man who did so much good for our country?

    Ataturk had to change the outdated system of the Ottaman Empire. He had to educate people- opened schools, and even taught them algebra and science. He had to react against the Ottaman Empire or there was no future for the Turkish people. He did NOT abandon Islam, rather, he encouraged equal rights to have their own beliefs. Not everyone was Muslim under the Ottaman Empire, therefore, he encouraged people to have their own beliefs and respected all religions.

    Some people thought that the pace of change under Atatürk was too rapid as, in his quest to modernize Turkey. Well, when Ataturk took over, he knew that a lot of things had to be done. He didnt abolish Islam, even his parents were practicing Muslims. At that time, there were no schools to educate people, instead there were hundres of mosques everywhere. Ataturk was insightful, and had to stress on the importance ‘modern education’ which at that time the Turkish community were lacking…due to the Ottoman Empire.

    Im a Muslim/ Turkish girl and proud to say that Ataturk was a great hero for me and many other Turks. Who are other people to judge him? There is so much other people dont know about him. Why so much hate for a man who loved people regradless of their religion, age, race and gender…

    One of my favourite Ataturk sayings: “MANKIND IS A SINGLE BODY AND EACH NATION A PART OF THAT BODY. WE MUST NEVER SAY ‘WHAT DOES IT MATTER TO ME IF SOME PART OF THE WORLD IS AILING?’ IF THERE IS SUCH AN ILLNESS, WE MUST CONCERN OURSELVES WITH IT AS THOUGH WE WERE HAVING THAT ILLNESS

    Peace and love to everyone,

    Melisa

    • Ahmet Barut says:

      Hi Melisa,

      I’m Turkish Cypriot, can I ask do you know what the Ottoman Empire was to call it outdated? All Islamic empires not only Ottoman where the first establishments to grant people their freedom of religion and human rights, so I don’t where you got the idea the Ataturk introduced it? The truth is Ataturk lead us to independence and educated our people, which were good things. But haven’t you noticed after he made us independent, he then made us live our lives like the Europeans, the very people he saved us from? Don’t you find that strange? Also I respect the fact that you say you are a Muslim, but can I ask what do you know about Islam? Do even know the basics? Because as you know for your self many of us Turks always say we are proud to be Turkish and Muslim, when most of us hardly know anything about Islam, only the fact that we believe in Allah(SWT) and that Muhammad(PBUH) is our prophet. Its sad because, our people are always ready to indulge themselves in everything western, but when it comes to their own religion they say they haven’t got time. So then how can they say they are proud to be Turkish and Muslim with that attitude? The sad thing is Turks are so lucky we are born Muslim but we take it for granted, we don’t know the value of what we posses and we posses a treasure, which is the only truth in the world. I recommend you to read up on Islam your religion, as I did, if you haven’t already. It has woken me up.

      Peace

  72. ahmeg says:

    selamualeykum, brother why not anybody mention kurdish?, we were there fight at ww1,ww2., we helped that satan ataturk . you may be muslim but still racist.
    selamualeykum

  73. Taimur says:

    Melisa, You people are lied always about Mustafa Gaymal Atayehudi. He did nothing for your country, he just enjoyed lavish life with money of Turkey. He had taken pledge to destroy Islam in Turkey and he did. He opened schools and made Turkey educated as you said. But did you ever produced any scientist? did you ever produced anything in your country? are you a developed country? are you a super power as you were during Ottomans? Are you riches in the Europe? The Muslims in Turkey are now realising the fact that Mustafa Gaymal Atayehudi has lied and fooled them. Now the great Turkish race will emerge once again Inshallah and will destroy the Satanic state of Atagay. All Kurds and real Muslim Turks must unite and start a Islamic revolution in Turkey.

  74. Aaron says:

    Malaysia and Indonesia share a lot of common belief in term of cultures and traditions. In the past century, both were Hindu and Buddhist but later on the mercy of God; we were shown the right path to Islam as our way of life.

    Islam is not just a religion, but is a way of life for Muslim. In fact for both societies (Malay and Javanese), it is deeply assimilate into our cultures and tradition especially in Malaysia as when someone mention about being Malay is equal to being a Muslim.

    A society is shape by its peoples who follow their tradition and cultures as well as the way a leader lead them. If the leader is leading the country toward secularism, then the society would somehow live in a secular way of life (those who practise religion will practise it, those who are not adherent to their religion would not be intimidated), this is the most crucial part that would later shape our society’s history. But it is not always in some cases where the leader led toward the opposite direction against the will of the people. And to that extent is where rebellion is rising, protest as a shown of unsatisfactory toward the government that frequently lead to harsh treatment, imprisonment by the authority.

    Iran is a great example of Islamic country where its leader enforce the Shariah Law that govern the country today, the society’s way of life is shape upon the religious value and tradition thus create an Islamic Nation in the eyes of the world. Turkey in the other hand also a Muslim populated country (98%) but all its constitutional law are base on secularism, and as a result, in today’s turkey society, the proportion of practicing Muslims is as low as 20% only.

    Of course practicing religion is a personal issues between us as human to our creator, the almighty Allah, but without a leader that guide us to the right path, we will somehow lost our religious identity and perhaps our culture identity as well. Slowly we will become a nation of atheist mirroring the western people. Our faith in Islam is very strong forces that unite us as Muslim. The fall of Islamic Ottoman Empire is due to the fact of disunity amongst the Muslim Ummah where patriotism of race (being Arab or Turks) superseded the faith of Islam.

    The West encourage us to separate our religion away from politic/state, they encourage us toward their way of “democracy” thinking that this can be adopted overnight, changing our way of thinking and living. Because they are fully aware of the power of religion that will unite us as Islamic Ummah, their method in occupying us is to “Divide and Conquer”. Without a religion we lost of our identity, our principal of life, our cultures value and traditions. To ensure that these spirits of unity remain, it is the role of our leader to enforce these values so that we, as a strong nation of Muhammad will continue to be victory until the arriving of Mahdi who will end of time, bring justice and prepare for the second coming son of Mary, Jesus Al Masih Alaihi Salam, the Prophet of Islam.

    If a nation favor a secular leader, all its priority is will be base without any religion consideration and values. As times travel, society will lost its Islamic spirits, way of life and practice. The Jews and the West invented socialism, communism, human rights and democracy so that they can use it as a tool to administrate the wider world especially the nation of Muhammad but in reality, Islam itself is very democratic, kind and tolerance toward others, and most importantly its hold our Islamic value of life.

    In Malaysia, the country has Civil Law that will govern the people and as for Muslim, its rule by the Shariah law. The Shariah Court supersede the civil law for Muslim especially Malay. Our constitutional only recognise Malay as Muslim since our independent in 1957. It is safe to say that all Malay are Muslim while not all Malaysian are Muslim (because minority Chinese or Indian born Malaysian are free to worship). Under Shariah law, Malay will not be able to buy alcohol, going into Casino, even when a Malay couple who are not married stay in one room without married relationship, the religious authority together with the police will arrest them (khalwat). Recently in Kuala Lumpur, a techno club were raided when religious authority arrests all Malays leaving the non Muslim continue with the night. These social issues are everywhere in every part of the world and government are hold accountable for it so that the future generation will have a strong values of being Muslim with tolerance toward non Muslim.

    Malaysia is very unique and diversity country where our government manage to administrate and consolidate the citizens from all background under the domain of “nation with Islamic value”. In the interest of other minority, temples and churches being build to accommodate the minority but the spread of non Muslim religion are tightly monitored and controlled (even the Bible are illegal to be distributed in Malay language, the word of “Allah” only to be use for Muslim faith), in contrast to this, Islamic faith are widely promote on media and other resources in all form of languages. This is what we call an Islamic Nation, “guardians of the Islamic faith” but tolerance toward another.

    Is truth we have casinos, clubs and other form of non Islamic entertainment but that is for a good gesture toward other non Malay citizens. We don’t force the Chinese and Indian not to gamble but we make sure the Malay are not participate in these form of activities, that’s why the law in Malaysia prohibited Malay to enter casino anywhere in Malaysia, to buy alcohol etc. We don’t restrict clubbing to everyone but we encourage Malay not to dwell into that kind of places. JAKIM (Jabatan Kemajuan Islam Malaysia) only have authority toward Malay, but not the Indian and Chinese citizen as long as their interest does not clash with the Islamic affairs. This government body have a very strong influence in relation to law, Malay society’s affair, religious education and welfares. They have the authority to react in relation to the morals being of Malays. With these kind of tolerance, respect and understanding, Malaysian citizens are united and prosper toward civilization and modernization of 21st century because Islam is base on “firm believe in faith but tolerance toward others”.

    The only differences between Indonesian and Malaysian is the way its citizens been rule by. Secularism is the method of the government in Republic of Indonesian whereas Sultanate is the way Malaysia is administrated by. Our Monarchy / Sultan are the supreme leader of the country, the “Guardian of Islamic Faith”, the political leader and Commander of the Armed Forces but the prime Minister takes its order from the Sultan. Together with his cabinet ministers, he is responsible in bringing Malaysia to the eyes of the world. One great example of our history is our former Prime Minister; Mahathir bin Mohamad. He was credited for engineering Malaysia’s rapid modernization

    During his term in office, Mahathir turned Malaysia into a regional high-tech manufacturing, financial, and telecommunications hub through his economic policies based on corporate nationalism, known as the various “Malaysia Plans” which set out the government middle-term objectives. These policies with strong Keynesian tendency remained in effect almost to the end of his tenure in office. Mahathir is credited with spearheading the phenomenal growth of the Malaysian economy, now one of the largest in South East Asia. Growth between 1988 and 1997 averaged over ten percent and living standards rose twenty fold, with poverty relatively almost eradicated and social indicators such as literacy levels and infant mortality rates becoming almost on par with developed countries.

    In Malaysia, we are moving toward modernization together with Islam while the others tend to separate religion and politic believing that Islam is only a personal matter of individuals but in reality, Islam is the way of life for every Muslim Ummah, especially in Dominated Muslim country.

  75. Agus Ridwan H says:

    I am no Arab nor Kurdish Pakistani, Iranian nor Indian Muslim and have a real pitty for our Turkish brothers.
    A liquor- addict Mustafa Kemal has been some kind of a cult and worshiped like a deity.
    And no offence, I have several questions for our so-called Kemalists or ultra secular fundamentalists like Iceman:
    What has your drunken hero brought about in “modernizing” Turkey? Has over a period of 80 years your country become a truly developed country? Not even a single notable scientific discovery ever produced since then, am I wrong?
    What is your country’s GDP? for those claiming Turkey is the most advanced muslim country must not have known the complete map of the world -which was for the first time drawn up by your ancestors during the Ottoman Empire, then the world’s greatest naval powers!!
    Take note just one Muslim country which has been applying some form of sharia law.
    Malaysia is capable of manufacturing autos under several brands whose GNP is more than twice as much as Turkey’s
    Look at what has modern Turkey brought about?
    Any prominent household-friendly appliances or goods like LG, Samsung made in Turkey?
    Btw, those products are produced by a country still at war in 1950’s with which Turkey took part.
    And this is to sum up the whole things:
    Adapting the west culture only makes your country a pathetic European wannabe, the west-minded forever, and changing the way you dress does not make your country a respected state either.
    Be yourself!!

  76. Usman Peerzada - Hindistan (India) says:

    Dear all on the forum (accept the Kamali Beasts), The Osmani Sultans did lot in the past centuries to keep Muslims secure and united. We Muslims had no problem till the day the Osmani Khalifah was removed.

    The Osmani kept Muslim safe from crusaded and other evils. Today the sons and daughters of those great Osmanians Turks are priosners of some masanic Turkish Jews also known as secularist Kamali in Turkey.

    As Muslim it becomes our duty to help and secure the freedom of this great nation. We must help whatever way we want to destroy the Satanic and Masanic Kamalist occupation. The Kurt and Turks must forget their differences and form the Islamic army. The Jewsish masanic Kamali Turkish regim is very weak indeed and can be destroy within few days.

    All Muslims must help….

  77. Hurriyah says:

    I understand where you’re coming from, but take a look at a Turk’s opinion:

    Although Turkey has a ban on entering government buildings with hijab on, we lack a fundamentalist government that FORCES women to wear niqaab or burqas. I TOTALLY support my Islamic sisters’ right to wear it – but I think it should be a personal choice, not a law.

    Although Turkey has ‘lost’ their Muslim heritage and is more Western, lacks the Ummah feeling, blah blah blah – it is a country full of Muslims, run by Muslims, all of whom practise their own understanding of the teachings of Islam – and are free to choose not to do so, if they choose as well.

    There should be no compulsion in religion, and Turkey is following that exactly.

    Furthermore, what would have happened if Ataturk had not stepped up after WW1? Turkey would have been taken by the Allies, and the Middle East would probably be run by Westerners. Say ‘bye-bye’ to any religious freedom to Islam you may have – if the Allies had taken over, we’d all be Christians by force, probably.

    I can see where you’re coming from, but I have to disagree. Long life Ataturk’s dream of a free, independant nation!

  78. Prabu Siliwangi says:

    To our Turkish brothers, especially those to Mustafa worshipers, these are few questions that always keep popping up on my mind :

    if Turkey is a truly liberal democracy then how come those ultra secular generals of the self-styled guardians of the Kemalism have in the past perpretated several coups against a democratically elected goverment?

    Why on earth would a democratic state impose a ban on women wearing hijab at goverment offices and universities?
    Even non muslim western countries except for France have no such sily dress code..

    If Turkey is truly embracing liberal democracy, why are Mustafa Kemal statues dotting city parks, buildings and important places around the country?
    Is that typical of a country ruled by a dictator, or to be precise by a military junta?

    Why would cautious, power-hungry, western-minded, european-wannabe elites fear women wearing headscarfes?
    You must learn from secular democratic muslim country Indonesia, where million women wear headscarfes at universities, goverment institutions and private companies freely even the Vice President wife wears them too, whilst not a single general or others express their fear.

    Back to your roots..
    Islam is compatible with modernity, see Malaysia for yourself!!

  79. Adem Salim says:

    Atatürk (Mustaf Kemal) was a great leader in the hard times of Turkey after WWI. It is not correct to say he was against Islaml; If he was, then Turkey was now occupied by non-muslim countries like France or Greece. He has done many many good things for Turkey. He was not a anti Muslim leader. He fought all his live against the occupation of Christian nations in Turkey.

  80. brother says:

    Such a great discussion here, i loved reading all the posts and all the arguments and counter-arguments…brothers we should start our own Forum where we can discuss these topics in more detail after all it is hard to keep track when we are sliding down the page lol! what do you think?

    I just want to add, remember what our Prophet (saw) predicted all these trials and tribulations would come, nationalism etc. but at the end of the day remember 1 thing and you will be successful….your Death.

    This is because when you die and stand before Allah the Almighty Creator, he will not ask you if you were Turk, or Kurd, Arab or Indian, He will judge you individually as a person and what contribution you made to Islam and humanity.

    Islam will win in the end, but it is about what did YOU do for it? what did you do for the Ummah?

    My own opinion is that Mustafa Kemal did what was best for his nation, but he does not deserve the title of Attaturk. That is because this title of “Attaturk” has better candidates like Osman 1, Sultan Selim, Sultan Fatih Mehmet, or Sultan Suleyman.

    and finally remember what the Koran teaches us…when it says “and you will not be asked about what they (nations of the past) did” and finally the saying of the Prophet (Peace and Blessings on his soul) when he said that “Just as the people are…so are the leaders that Allah send to rule them”

    REMEMBER THIS… no leader can be blamed when there is failure…because the leader is always a reflection of the people.

    had the people been different, they would have changed him, and their hearts been just Allah would not punish them with a dictator.

    This was true in the past, it is true now, and will forever be true.

    In the end Remember your purpose in life, and remember that to Allah (azza wa jal) is our Final Return,

    walaikum assalaam

  81. Iceman says:

    Agus Ridwan H

    To answer your questions:
    1. Just google turk scientific discoveries and you can see the turk scientists have discovered just as much as any other scientists of all muslim countries and non muslim.

    2. As for GDP heres a global top 20 list, turkey made the list and so did indonesia and iran but Not malaysia.(thats why you used GNP instead of GDP)
    1 United States 12,980
    2 China 10,000
    3 Japan 4,220
    4 India 4,042
    5 Germany 2,585
    6 United Kingdom 1,903
    7 France 1,871
    8 Italy 1,727
    9 Russia 1,723
    10 Brazil 1,616
    11 Korea, South 1,180
    12 Canada 1,165
    13 Mexico 1,134
    14 Spain 1,070
    15 Indonesia 935
    16 Taiwan 668.3
    17 Australia 666.3
    18 Turkey 627.2
    19 Iran 610.4
    20 Argentina 599.1
    ( in conclusion considering turkey is always wasteing money killing kurds and moveing there army around all the time because of hostile neighbors its pretty good). Also you fail to mention that alot of malaysias businesses are owned by the Chinese who the malaysian government always keeps down and malaysia has alot of natural resources oil etc, If the malaysians ran business fairly in there country the chinese would OWN and RUN the country in no time.(BTW i’m just replying to questions i like the malaysian people they are very good and kind people.)

    3.Yes turkey was great as the ottoman empire but all empires come to an end, you dont see the ancestors of the romans(italians) running the world anymore..

    4. im not a kemalist,secularist or a fundamentalist. I can label you the same. FUNDAMENTALIST, but im not gonna do that.

    Also to all the other SULKS who are crying about mustafa kemal well show some concrete EVIDENCE to back your claims? But you can’t because as usual you idiots believe in rumors or oppionon talk, thats why your countries and people will always be backwards.
    If you don’t know what i mean well i’ll give you an example: You will find sunnis talking bad about shias and vice versa saying they hate them etc and when you ask them why do you hate them? they give you a whole bunch of reasons. BUT when you actually listen to these idiots and go research and find out if what they are saying is true. You will find that it’s mostly LIES,EXAGERATIONS ETC. But yet to them its FACTS and they will literally die or kill for these lies. This goes for all things including stuff about ataturk, westerners, democracy, etc. It seems that most people in islamic countries just listen to remours, oppionons etc and dont look for truth themselves. In conclusion they don’t know anything about anything but if you talk to them they will tell you stuff which is as if they are facts.. Thats why there fools(SHEEP)..

  82. Iceman says:

    Prabu Siliwangi

    To answer your questions:
    1.Yes its true some governments where good and the army took them down for no real reason. No arguement their. But which muslim country has free elections or anything close to it? was the dirty king of saudi arabia elected in? saddam ruled for ages i dont see any real elections there, pakistan military coups musharaf etc. Indonesia dont forget suarto a killer. Malaysia seems to be the only good place as far as elections is concerned.

    2.Mustafa Kemal Statues is around city parks etc because he is a hero.( you see statues of lincon in the USA, Sadaam in iraq prior to the USA invasion and you can see pictures all over the place of the royal family of jordan i think king hussain comes to mind. Iran has pictures of the ayatolla everywhere.

    3.I agree islam is capable in a modern country and the headscarfe should be allowed in schools etc( Every1 should be allowed religious freedom, which president GUL has secured just recently). However no1 should tell or force the women who don’t want to cover*(there choice).
    You see it’s countries like afghanistan,iran,saudi etc which make people afraid of even allowing a glimpse of muslim showing in turkey in those countries you are NOT free. So to a lets say secularist turk asking for something like the headscarfe ban scares them to think that its 1 step closer to something like the Taliban.

  83. Iceman says:

    Usman Peerzada – Hindistan (India)

    You say turks need to be freed of kemalists. Well how about freeing yourselves from the concept of INDIA a nation ruled by the hindus. What happened to the moghul empire? all gone now i dont see you guys fighting your HINDU rulers and creating a muslim nation their. I dont see you guys doing anyting about Kashmir? Sure you have pakistan. BUT there is still 180million muslims in india i dont see you guys uniteing with the pakis and kashmir people even though your all muslims and the same race. And dont say ohh well we have some muslims in parliament in india because that does’nt mean crap your country is Hindu run and ruled with your crappy CAST system, haveing a class of people and your life depending on that class your born into. How disgraceful haveing a system like that in 2008. SHAME and you talk about turkey? You better pray your in the upper class or your gonna get walked all over. WHAT A SICK PLACE.

  84. Prabu Siliwangi says:

    @ Iceman , I didn’t refereed to Saudi, Saddam-era Iraq as democracies instead I sought to compare western democracies, and In the Muslim world, Indonesia- with Turkey’s extreme secular, western-obsessed demo”crazy” where there are no rules on religious dress code, with France being the exception of late.
    Who is more worthy of being called Idiots then? :) shame on you!!

    Go and visit the US, I believe it will surely be no problem for one claiming to be a citizen of the world’s most advanced Muslim country. :)

    Are there Lincoln statues in The US as many as your Kemal statues in Turkey?

    I didn’t try to look down on Muslim Turkish brothers the way you did to, Arabs, Afghans, Iranians, Indians, and Pakistanis.
    The latter being the only Muslim country with nuke power…
    While the one thing my colleagues mostly recall about your country is Kebab.

    I really admire this country with great past yet I feel sick with those blinded by Kemalist authoritarian rule in disguise of pseudo democracy like you.

    Please note Indonesia’s Suharto dictatorship era had ceased in 1998 and now the country is the world’s third biggest democracy with Islamic Parties freely participating in elections, where no stupid laws prohibiting women wearing headscarves and the Military is purely in control of the Civilians.

    Please also note the following facts:
    Malaysia’s its own autos is not chinless-owned, so is Petronas, it is true that Chinese command a sizeable share of the economy yet the Muslim Malays can not outrageously be unaccounted for!!

    India’s former president’ who happened to be a Muslim, was the country’s nuclear Father.

    And this is the real list of countries by GDP (nominal) :

    1. United States 13,194,700 2
    2. Japan 4,366,459 3
    3. Germany 2,915,867 4
    4. People’s Republic of China 2,644,642 2 5
    5. United Kingdom 2,398,946 6
    6. France 2,252,213 7
    7. Italy 1,852,585 8
    8. Canada 1,275,273 9
    9. Spain 1,225,750 10
    10. Brazil 1,067,706 11
    11. Russia 984,925 12
    12. South Korea 888,267 13
    13. India 873,659 14
    14. Mexico 840,012 15
    15. Australia 755,659 1 16
    16. Netherlands 670,929 17
    17. Turkey 401,763 18
    18. Belgium 394,507 1 19
    19. Switzerland 387,987 20
    20. Sweden 384,388 1 21
    21. Republic of China (Taiwan) 364,563 22
    22. Indonesia 364,239 23
    23. Saudi Arabia 349,138 1 24
    24. Poland 340,9691 25
    25. Norway 335,856

    Let’s talk about facts!!

  85. Prabu Siliwangi says:

    Sorry In Indonesia, The Civilians is totaly in control of the Military

  86. Prabu Siliwangi says:

    @ Iceman

    I didn’t refereed to Saudi, Saddam-era Iraq as democracies instead I sought to compare western democracies, and particularly a Muslim country , Indonesia, with Turkey’s extreme secular, western-obsessed demo”crazy” where there are no rules on religious dress code, with France being the exception of late.
    Who is more worthy of being called Idiots then? :) shame on you!!

    Go and visit the US, I believe it will surely be no problem for one claiming to be a citizen of the world’s most advanced Muslim country. :)

    Are there Lincoln statues in The US as many as your Kemal statues in Turkey?

    I didn’t try to look down on Muslim Turkish brothers the way you did to, Arabs, Afghans, Iranians, Indians, and Pakistanis.
    The latter being the only Muslim country with nuke power…
    While the one thing my colleagues mostly recall about your country is Kebab.

    I really admire this country with great past yet I feel sick with those blinded by Kemalist authoritarian rule in disguise of pseudo democracy like you.

    Please note Indonesia’s Suharto dictatorship era had ceased in 1998 and now the country is the world’s third biggest democracy with Islamic Parties freely participating in elections, where no stupid laws prohibiting women wearing headscarves and the Civilians is totalt in control of the Military.

    Please also note the following facts:

    Malaysia’s its own autos is not chinese-owned, so is Petronas, it is true that Chinese command a sizeable share of the economy yet the Muslim Malays can not outrageously be unaccounted for!!

    India’s former president’ who happened to be a Muslim, was the country’s nuclear Father.

    And here is the real list of countries by GDP (nominal) :

    1. United States 13,194,700 2
    2. Japan 4,366,459 3
    3. Germany 2,915,867 4
    4. People’s Republic of China 2,644,642 2 5
    5. United Kingdom 2,398,946 6
    6. France 2,252,213 7
    7. Italy 1,852,585 8
    8. Canada 1,275,273 9
    9. Spain 1,225,750 10
    10. Brazil 1,067,706 11
    11. Russia 984,925 12
    12. South Korea 888,267 13
    13. India 873,659 14
    14. Mexico 840,012 15
    15. Australia 755,659 1 16
    16. Netherlands 670,929 17
    17. Turkey 401,763 18
    18. Belgium 394,507 1 19
    19. Switzerland 387,987 20
    20. Sweden 384,388 1 21
    21. Republic of China (Taiwan) 364,563 22
    22. Indonesia 364,239 23
    23. Saudi Arabia 349,138 1 24
    24. Poland 340,9691 25
    25. Norway 335,856

    And list of country by GD – per capita (2007) :
    1 Bermuda $69,900
    2 Luxembourg $68,800
    3 Equatorial Guinea $50,200
    4 United Arab Emirates $49,700
    5 Norway $47,800
    6 Guernsey $44,600
    7 Cayman Islands $43,800
    8 Ireland $43,600
    9 United States $43,500
    !
    !
    !
    68. Malaysia $12,700
    !
    !
    78 Bulgaria $10,400
    !
    !
    81. Turkey $8,900

    Even your former ancestors’s colony, Bulgaria, was ranked better!!

    Let’s talk about facts!!

  87. **** Mustafa Kemal says:

    Let’s talk about facts :

    Communism Vs Capitalism :
    The latter prevails:
    Take North Korea Vs South Korea
    or pre- Deng Xiaoping China Vs Hongkong as examples.

    Democracy Vs Fake Democracy

    The former is the winner ;
    The example :
    Modern Greece or even Greek Cyprus Vs Kemalist Turkey..

    Those great Ottoman Empire’s former colonies and subordinates fare much better..

    We would really like to see who will emerge the victors if Modern Turkey’s Islamic Parties ( I wish they were present) are allowed to compete against staunchly secular establisment..

    Iceman, would you care toanswer to my question?

    Or you are too busy refuting arguments from those assaulting you or maybe you are right now too bussy worshiping your drunker Hero?


    (1MuslimNation Says: Your username is really offensive, so I’ve edited it. Please don’t use such names agains. Thanks

  88. Iceman says:

    Prabu Siliwangi

    1. Chinese people are being kept down in indonesia aswell(beacause your people are jealous that they are so rich and are gaining in power), so how is that democracy? You said turkey does’nt allow headscarves in schools or parliament. That law has been changed by Pres Gul.( so you have no arguement).

    2. You make it sound like ataturks statues are in every corner. (maybe you should go to turkey). Ataturk statues are in main areas of states thats all. You dont see them in the East of turkey much at all.( so you have no arguement their aswell)

    3. I’m not looking down on any1( you claim this) I’m just stateing FACTS about those countries.

    4.indonesias Military is in control by the civilians? , are you even reading what your writing. This is totally incorrect. The military runs the show, and if any of indonesias islands or areas decide to think for themselves the military intervenes always. Just like they did in timor, Aceh, etc etc

    5.You mention malaysia again, but is it a fair playing field? speak to any chinese in malaysia and they will tell you that the government always keeps them down. So why do they keep them down( same as in indonesia)? Well the chinese are always getting richer and richer in these countries and to stop them from basically running the country( if it where a fair plaing field) the government always keeps them down.

    6. You say indias Pres was a muslim and the father of the nuke for india( im not sure of this but lets just say its true) Well then let me see now, Who does india threaten with nukes? Pakistan(muslims). So according to you an indian muslim father of the nuke and president made a country who HATES pakistan gain the nuke. Does this sound like something a muslim would do? scare other muslim neighbors? No right? So obviously the muslim president would have been a man whos oppionon doesnt mean anything and as long as he does what the hindu ran country wants( scare fellow muslims in pakistan and kashmir) then they can put him in as president to trick the people of the country.

    7. The GDP of turkey ranks in the top 20 which is still good( considering turkey spends billions on the military, kurds, neghbors etc etc). As for GD per capita well this does’nt show anything because the use population to people ratio to determine the wealth. Just have a look at the list
    Bermuda $69,900
    2 Luxembourg $68,800
    3 Equatorial Guinea $50,200
    4 United Arab Emirates $49,700
    5 Norway $47,800
    6 Guernsey $44,600
    7 Cayman Islands $43,800
    8 Ireland $43,600

    All these countries have low populations.
    So this list doesnt show anything..

    8. Turks where great as the ottoman empire, the seljuk turk empire and is still great as the republic of turkey.

  89. Prabu Siliwangi says:

    Iceman let me make it clear to you point by point:

    1. Chinese Malaysians and Chinese Indonesians had been given economic privileges by British and Dutch colonial rulers for hundreds of years so that it makes sense they make up the bulk of the economy in Malaysia and Indonesia until now, while indigenous Indonesians and Malaysians had during that period been some sort of third class citizens, therefore they have some years to catch up with their fellow Malaysians and Indonesians of Chinese descent.

    2. And again indigenous Malaysians and Indonesians have been counted out by you, while in fact their share of the economy have steadily been improving, FYI, Indonesia’s richest person is Aburizal Bakrie who is of indigenous Sumatran.

    3. I have pointed out Soeharto’s authoritarian regime come to an end in 1998 and followed by major reforms in all areas including by abolishing discriminatory policies against Chinese. Chinese New Year is even celebrated as national holiday, Chinese publications and media have sprung up and they freely express their identity, a luxury not enjoyed by Turkey’s Kurds.

    4. I must admit that Islamist-leaning President Abdulah Gul Administration has taken major changes to ease Kemalist regimes’ past harsh policies and bring relative economic prosperity to Turkey, however, all-neck-enveloping, religious veils and burqas are still banned at government offices and universities, right ?
    (What is your argument?)

    5. Of course you barely find Mustafa statues in the East or to be precise, (south eastern corner of Turkey?) because this region is Arab- and Kurdish-inhabited who had no attachment to Mustafa. Still Mustafa’s statues are ubiquitous, What is you counter argument?

    6. How could you claim not to look down to others while branding them SULKS and stupid?

    7. Please read the latest news brother, and don’t look up old newspapers or obsolete site contents before making baseless statements. Indonesia is now a full-fledged democratic nation and it is a reality that civilians are in control of the Military. They have been strip off its parliamentary representations and are neutral and have been banned from politics for good, and the most important fact, they are not keen on deposing civilian rule unlike their Turkish counterpart.

    8. Read point number 1

    9. Dr A. P. J. Abdul. Kalam, an ethnic Tamil, was the third Muslim to serve as president of Hindu-dominated India. He has helped oversee India’s successful nuclear tests in 1998. What I tried to point out was intertwined with my previous comments on what scientific discovery has Kemalist Turkey churned out? Because you seemed to boast what Kemalist Turkey has achieved, something laymen could find really hard to know. You said a Muslim country scare other Muslim neighbors? What is exactly the name of that country because I never heard of that other than the 1980’s Iran-Iraq war,
    What about your Military killing each other fellow Muslim Kurds?

    10. In my previous comments I sought to compare Kemalist Turkey economic prosperity with other democracies’ in particular with the great Ottoman’s former colonies such as Greece and Greek Cyprus and GDP speaks just the gross revenues by collective population, GNP per capita does. Kemalist Turkey spending an average 20 % of the budget for defense and is to blame? I don’t think so
    What about Columbian government fighting Farc Rebels for 40 years?

    I totally agree with you brother Seljuk and Ottoman Turkey were great empires and I really admire your ancestors yet I have no same opinion for Kemalist Turkey, a country having very good relations with Israel who has driven millions fellow Muslim Palestinians from their land and murdered thousands other. A Muslim country where drinking habit is tolerated and has abandoned their great ancestors’ legacies in favor of western cultures (I am not saying Western scientific and technology advancement) and pursue personal cult of Mustafa Kemal.

  90. Iceman says:

    Prabu Siliwangi

    1.They allow headscarves now, so thats good enough. They are covered right? so thats enough to satify there religous belief. They dont allow burqas and veils because its to over board. Your modestly covered, that should be enough for you.

    2. Mustafa Kemal Statues arn’t ubiquitous like you say. They are ONLY IN MAIN AREAS. You’re trying to make it look like hes in every corner. So your arguement doesnt mean anything. Your trying to make it look like turks worship him or something. Hes was just a great leader and military mind. Its not like turks are praying to hes pictures or something. So your arguement is exagerated.

    3.Can a chinese be President in malaysia or Indonesia?
    Does’nt large scale of chinese people in indonesia live very cautiously because they are afraid to go to certain areas of your country?. To put it simply the chinese are kept an eye on and made sure to be held down.(I’ve spoken to many chinese indonesians who have had to run away from your country). Let me guess what your gonna say, things have changed right? I doubt it.

    4. The kurds in turkey can freely express there identity, publications and media BUT when they start talking about kurdistan or creating a country or supporting terrorism or saying the terrorists PKK and all other kurd orgs arnt terrorists then thats a different matter completely and Turkey reserves the right to shut them down and deal with that as they will. Any turk or kurd or whoever that supports terrorism should be either locked up or exterminated.

    5. The only reason i call them sulks is because they are sulks. Always sulking about how ataturk did this and that and how turks do this and that but never looking at there own countries in comparison. for example how can an indian talk about turkey this and that when they have a cast system? When they treat there poor like non humans? etc etc. And i can point this out about almost any muslim nation of the world.

    6.Your mixing things up, you said something about some muslim in india who was president and the nuclear father or something, so my counter arguement was that indias most hated enemy is pakistan and that any nuke the indians possesed was most likely to scare pakis.

    7. i never said Muslim country scare other Muslim neighbors? I meant about the nuke the indian muslim who you claim was the father or something of developing it, and my arguement was that india isnt a threat to any1 except pakistan(muslim people). But i can answer the question if you want, muslims scareing muslims: sunnis killing shias in iraq, sunnis killing shias in pakistan, northern aliance fighting mujahadeen in afghanistan and other groups killing each other in that country aswell (all muslims). indonesian army killing people in Aceh, in Sudan there have been killings between arab-afro muslims and pure afro muslims. etc etc etc.

    8. Its important for turkey to have a military rule so i agree with it. there are to many people who can make groups and cause a divide within turkey, eg kemalists, alevis,people who are islamists, kurds, armenians, greeks, laz, there are so many groups that can pop up and cause in fighting which is what led to hard times for the turks b4. So the army is important to maintain order.

    8. I never glorified turkish scientific discoveries, i said turkey has made just as much scientific discoveries in all fields which can compare with all muslim nations. Where as you guys make it sound like turkey has been makeing NO scientific advancements.

    9.The turk military killing kurds?(fellow muslims). They kill the Pkk kurds who want to strap bombs on them selves and kill turks in turkey, they kill coward kurds who want to shoot some farmer turk in the east or south east of turkey just because hes turk, The turkish army is justified exterminating people who want to kill turks.

    10.Well greece is with the EU and cyprus is aswell. Turk cyprus has a embargo and no muslim nation in the world helps out or even recognises turkish cyprus(except azerbaijan) So turkey has to also pay for that aswell + the army + killing kurds+ keeping civilian kurds under control+ haveing neighbors who are always haveing wars etc which effects turkeys economy( eg turkey lost heaps of money because of the situation in iraq(prior business deals etc) the list goes on. So overall the situation is pretty good and getting better economically. Indonesia is no better you can find poor people every.

    11 Well if some1 wants to drink thats there choice, i have no problems with that. Its called freedom, do what you want, drink, don’t drink, be religious, non religious, whatever you want.demcracy. Turkey doesnt follow western culture it follows turk culture. Some people use mustafa kemal as an excuse to drink or whatever thats there choice.Who cares.
    As for this thing with turkey haveing good relations with isreal. SO? Where was the arabs when the real war happend in ww1? Lets just concentrate on the mid east part of the war, turks are fighting the brits and others to keep those areas safe from westerners right? so what does the arabs do? join with the westerners to fight turks. And now there sulking about palestine or whatever. Thats there problem. Also the jew army have 20+% arabs in it? where does isreal get all there oil and money from? USA who supports the USA the most? arabs,saudi,kuwait etc etc.. So any arguement towards turkey about isreal can be easily counter argued.

  91. Fuck Mustafa Kemal says:

    Dear moderator,

    This blog should have been moderated to exclude those whose sight has been blinded, whose hearing has been sealed and whose heart has been frozen and not follow the right path of God The Almighty and Prophet Muhammad SAW.

    What is the point of having an argument with them?
    Iceman is the perfect example.
    Let me quote Shaz comment :
    Victory to the people who believe in One God, The pure, The Creator of all things, the only owner of all praise and ultimate submission..

  92. Kai says:

    What is the point of having an argument with them?
    Iceman is the perfect example.
    Let me quote Shaz comment :
    Victory to the people who believe in One God, The pure, The Creator of all things, the only owner of all praise and ultimate submission..

  93. Aurangzaib says:

    Iceman, like your name, your brain is of ice too which is mostly melted because of Kamalism. Iam an Indian Muslims and we love all Muslims around the world. Indian Muslim did lot of things for great Ummah and we will continue to do so. You said why we are not helping Kashmiri Muslim ? we are already helping them with what ever we can, many Kashmiri brothers are living in Muslim area in India with safety and security.

    You said India is rule by Hindus yes it is true because Hindus are in majority but still Muslims are in better position than how they are treated in Turkey.

    Turkey been an Muslim majority country how many Islamic Scholars it produced? India has many great international Islamic scholars example, Ahmed Deedad(born in India) and Dr. Zakir Naik.

    In India even though majority are Hindus still Muslim girsl are allowed to wear Hijab at any place in India wether government or private institution. Is it allowed in Turkey?

    Indian constitution gives sharia law to its Muslim Citizen, does Turkey has even a single sharia law?

    If you care about Muslims why do you recognise devil Israel, why do you give and take arms to and from Israel.

    Why do you kill innocent Islamic civilians?

    Why do you kill inocent kurds?

    Being in India still we Indian Muslims know more than what you devils know about us.

    We love great Devlati Osmani and we hate Kamal Pasha.

  94. Iceman says:

    Aurangzaib

    What a joke, you try to make your country look half descent and try to make turkey look bad. But you fail to mention your country has a cast system. A system of class, so some people are better than others. i guess you must be on the bottom of the class system.

    Even if turkey allowed sharia law. I wonder if any turk would except a law where they cut your hand off for stealing( im not makeing fun of gods law im just saying no1 in turkey wants to live under such strict rules.

    Turkey only buys arms of isreal NOT sells or gives it to them. So turkey has nothing to do with the killing of palestinians or whatever. Where does isreal get there fuel to fly there jet fighters?

    Turks dont kill innocent islamic civilians. I dont know where you got that from.

    Turks dont kill innocent kurds, the turk army kills kurds that are trying to kill turks or are planning to kill turks. They only kill terrorists kurds.

    Doesnt the indian army rule kashmir and they oppress kashmirian muslims? So how is this helping kashmir muslims?

  95. Aurangzaib says:

    Iceman,

    1) Cast System is among Hindus and not among Muslims. Half Knwoledge is harmful , so try to take full knowledge. Hindu people are divided themselves with cast system and not Muslims.
    Muslims are equal citizens as others.

    2) Kashmiris are living in Muslim areas in other parts of India as refugees and we help them whatever way we can.

    3) Everyone knows Kemal Pasha killed so many Kurds civilians during his dictatorship and his followers are still killing them.

    4) So you are taking arms from Israel? so doing good business with them?

    5) For Kamali like you , the Sharia law is nothing but cutting hands and head , you dont think beyond it. Sharia law has various other laws which benefits the Ummah.

    6) Our Develati Osmani will be back soon Inshallah and Kemali will be out from great Turkish nation.

    7) Although in Islam it is not allowed to give importance to any nationality but it is the fact that the real Muslim Turks(Sultan Fatih, Orhan Gazi, Osman Gazi) are the greates of all Ummah. The Muslim Turks in general are the toppest and most greatest of Ummah, the Kamali are the opposite of it.

  96. Tarek says:

    I find Ataturk to be a very confusing man. On one scale he is an Amazing man, by his leadership Turkey was saved and united, by his leadership Turkey is where it is today! This man was a Nationalist that gave his life to his country!

    I am an Egyptian Secular, i am Also Muslim, and an observant Muslim, who respects his deen to the fullest. Now i believe Secularism is a GREAT IDEA, and Secularism is what Egypt used to Also enjoy, but it was not enforced and now lately we in Egypt are having to deal with many people who are turning into Wahabi Crazy Salafi Muslims (not real ISlam, not the beautiful Peacful Islam we know) and some of our women are now wearing the BLACK NINJA outfit! It is very scary actually, and a big threat to Egypt. If Egypt kept its Secular Values we would not be dealing with these religious extremisists who do not contribute to Society, they think all they need to do in life is Pray and thats it..contrary to what Islam says!

    Anyways i believe KEMALISM is too Extreme but Secularism is the perfect answer!!

    Ataturk is and will always be a hero, he might not have been a good muslim, (and only Allah knows) but if you take religion out of the Equasion, you will find he was a GREAT TURK, and thats what MOST TURKS LIKE!

  97. Iceman says:

    Aurangzaib,

    1.How can you be an equal citizen when the nation has a a system of classes.( you’re blinded to the truth half knowledge). They obviously class you guys somewhere in the fold of the classes depending on the wealth of certain areas and certain muslims but most likely you guys are on the bottom.( If hindu run india are classing there fellow hindu people obviously they would class you guys bellow them).

    2. You answered your own question you said kashmirians are living in indian muslim areas as REFUGEES, so let me get this strait they got kicked out of there country and are living as refugees in india and just because you say you guys help them( maybe you guys give them bread to live another day in there ravaged life) you think this is helping? helping would be if all the muslims from india and pakistan and kashmir joined up and kicked out the indian curry muncher army from kashmir.

    3. You claim ataturk killed kurd civilians? got proof? obviously NO. Ive said it b4 and ill say it again if any kurd in any time past or present decides to fight the turk ruled and rightfully owned lands then the turk army has 100% right to exterminate the scum. Dont start nothing and there wont be nothing, its that simple. They want to fight but when they get killed they sulk. Thats there fault.

    4. Im NOT a kemalist im a realist, as for the sharia law im not gonna say anything about it because i dont know to much about it( and if it truly is allahs law then i dont want to get a sin for talking against it) but if you think people like me only talk about cutting off hands etc. Well you tell me what if the man is poor? and he steals bread just to eat, then should his hands be cut off? and i would like u 2 go on2 you tube and watch what those nut cases in afghanistan and saudi arabia and iraq do cutting of hands, feats and heads. Watch it fully and you tell me if you want a law like that in your country? ( on the other hand if these people in these countries are happy with these laws then i’ve got no problems with that).

    Also i just want to say what about the hindus destroying an important mosque and replaceing it with the hindu temple on the exact same place? what have you indian muslims done about that? and what are you guys gonna do about it in the future?

  98. DARKSTAR says:

    Well…well….

    I have been to turkey, and have seent the the work of mustafa kemal. Secularism was a tool to destroy Christianity, and replace it with allegiance to the state and not to GOD. It was the same forces which created communism, captialism, feminism, and fascism.

    The plan was to replace religion. All this talk I have read about religion being separate from the state is nonsence. ISLAM is a complete way of life, unlike any other religion, it cannot be separated. Let us talk about the Christian religion first and Europe, since turks want to aspire to the western way of life.

    Secularism was designed by atheists. Actually they were satanists!! The Christian religion played a great part in Western society and was very infleuntial. The only way to plot against the Christian religion was to introduce secularism, and introduce change from within society.

    Things really started to take off after world war 2 for Europe and the rest of the western world. If you ever watch pre 1950’s movies, you will see women modestly dressed, and there is an emphasis on family values. The drive to secularism which started much much earlier came into full swing and the ENGINEERED 1960’s sex revolution was a significant time, where all previous held taboos were broken.

    Religion in the western world has been on the back foot since then, and Christian values have all but been evaporated from western socities. Values which took 2000 years to put inplace, have in a space of a generation been wiped out! This did not just happen, but was engineered by satanic forces who worship satan and are proud to do his work for him.

    Now the generation brought up on sex, drugs and rock and roll, (you might want to look up what rock and roll really stand for), and their chldren have no knowledge of the Christian religion, and as a result remain ignorant.

    I live in a western country, I have through the wesernt education system. I know how the west thinks, I have through their program. I know western society, I lived in it for most of my life, actually all my life. I have friends who don’t want to know abut religion, they have rain washed to sware allegiance to the state, quuen/king and country. They have no knowledge of the religion of their forefathers.

    Unfortunatley the western socisties have been duped. Instead of loving ALLAH, they have more love for material wealth. There is nothing wrong in wanting wealth, but materialism is the new religion. This of course suits the satanic powers because they become wealthy on the tax on our consumer spending, and the loans I see many people take out to afford their ever increasing material lifestyle. Again this suits satanic powers because they make the money from the interests of the loans taken out.

    As I have said before secularism and materialism are the most influential forces in the west, religion simply exists in name only. People think that to have a good time you get drunk, as many do on a Friday night. More and more children in the west are now being born out of wedlock. The next generation of children culd have a different mother or a different father. Children born out of wedlock use to be a cause of shame and dishonour at one point in the west……no more. It is now the norm!!

    Teenage pregnancies are sky rocketing in western socities. This may be shocking for some of you to read this, but daughters are coming home preganant, and they do not know who the FATHERS are!! Why …because they were too drunk!! Apparently it could have been any number of fathers. The fathers of course when the child is born do not want take responsability for the child becasue it was conceived not through the process of marriage like religion taches us, buit in a fit of DRUNKEN LUST!!!! So the child becomes a bastard!! An increasing number here in western socities.

    Satan is already smiling….and rubbing his hands that his work is being done by “secularist”, who decided that religion was getting in their way.

    Now these satanic forces which use “secularism” as a front have introduced same sex marriages. The final nail in the coffin for family values.

    SO TUKEY IS THIS THE LIFESTYLE YOU WISH TO ASPIRE TO??

    In many ways you have. I know turkey very well, I have relatives there. Let me tell you turks something, “SECULARIM” is really SATNANISM!!, but they can’t call it outright satanism, so they give a softer name like “secularism”.

    Who do you think will be most impressed by seeing religion taken away from society, and in schools and persectuted like it has been in europe and also in turkey. Will ALLAH be impressed or will SATAN be the who is smiling!

    When I was in turkey, I think satan is having his way alittle too much. Well he would, becuase the state institutions such as the miltary, higher education and the legal system are run by SATANISTS…….oh sorry….. SECULARISTS. The socalled secularists detest religion, that is why they do not practice it, and do wish to see tohers practice it, hence the laws which have brought specifically designed to weaken ISLAM.

    I find it astonishing that a female univresity student cannot, despite the law passed, still cannot get into some turkish universities because they wear a head scarf. So much for turkish TOLERANCE!! What I find even more extraordinary is that turkey is a country that has lergalised prostitution. It is still a point of heated debate and until recently illegal to wear a head scarf in turkish universities, but there is no bone of contention of a woman parading her body around and getting paid for sexual services offered…which is perfectly legal. Now for a country that professes to be 98% Muslim, there is something seriously wrong in this society.

    It is most shocking and sad to see what was once a city at the heart of the Muslim world called ISLAMBUL, being turned into a city of brothels, night clubs, sex shops….yes you read it right I did say sex shops, even they exists now.

    If you go further south to the west of the country you will come across a city called izmir. It is abundant with bars and night clubs, and the alcohol flows equally abundantly. In the midst of this you will see young turks laapping up alcohol, fornicating with their partners, most likely to be unmarried. During the day you will see turkish women sun bathing topless in the presence of other men. Idf this is what is happening in the europe and if this is what european women doing, then why should the turkish woman left behind. PROGRESS INDEED. These women think nothing of being ashamed and modesty is far from their minds, it does not even enter it. Now this is what gets me, these women lye their naked on the beach and yet have the gall to calkl themselves “MUSLIMS”! Dear turks ISLAM is not a LABEL, to be a MUSLIM, start practcing its values, and not engage in UNISLAMIC ACTS and call yourselves “MUSLIMS”.

    Some of you will be shocked to read this, and you should, especially if you know the history of this once pious Muslim nation, and what is has desceneded to thanks to kemal.

    To turks I have this to say, you suffer from an inferiority complex, it is for this reason you have decided to abandon your histroy, culture, and religion in many ways. Now you can light up your CHRISTMAS TRESS, the only country I know in the Muslim world where Muslim families have christmas tress in their homes, although you prefer to call them NEW YEAR TREES, it won’t get you into europe.

    Have the turks not learnt anything. How many rejections from europe will it take for the turks to undretsnad that they are not wanted and are not considered european. The turkish nation keeps knocking on the door of europe tolet them in the european union, and everytime they are rejected, and humiliated. If the turks had any sense of shame they would say to hell with europe, but that would be the attitude of the GREAT OTTOMAN TURKS, THE TRUE MUSLIMS, this is of course not the atitude of the SECULAR TURKS, who although they do not know it are in fact serving statan, and have no such thing as honour, integrity and shame. If they did they would have abandoned europe long ago, because europe has no time for turkey, hence after 50 years of trying, the turks are no coser to joining now then they were 50 years ago.

    The turkish nation has sold its soul. it is unrecognizable to the Muslim nation it once was was and the values of ISLAM it once adhered to.

    I have hope, there are also many turks who hate the MASONIC legacy of kemal, and widh to see their country return to the core values of ISLAM.

    It is so ironic that the Muslim AEK party in power is being threatend with closure becuase it represents ISLAM, nad that some secular judge is not happy about, that a Muslim should be a prime minister and president. So the SATANIC turkish establishment is feeling threatend and want to clsoe the party in power. SO MUCH FOR DEMOCRACY!!

    I suppose that there are some “secular” turks here on this forum who would argue that the judge is doing this in the interest of Islam……..I guess you can’t argue with such people, ALLAH (SWT), have shut off their hearts and minds, and they can no longer reason.

    • emilio says:

      Alhamdulillah, at least someone like Darkstar is present in this forum to knock some sense into our Turkish brothers and sisters’ heads…but will our poor, blinded, misguided Turkish bros and sis ever understand?

    • Irfan says:

      WOW, what a comparison!!!!, great brother carry on…..

  99. DARKSTAR says:

    In case you wish to get a taste of what turkey is like and what it wishes to aspire to….go to http://www.youtube.com. In the search button type in “hepsi”. This is a turksih R&B girl group, who are less than 20 years old I should imagine. When looking at their videos, think to yourselves is this the type of entertainment being offered to you Muslim turkish girls. Can these girls really be Muslim, and come from a Muslim country? You will have hard time believing so.

    Also why not type in sevda demirel, or hande ataizi. Be prepared to be shocked at the level of indecency that is the turkish media.

    Then ask is this the legacy of someone who was wanting to perserve values of destroy them. It is these media images that are being fed to youg turks to aspire to and behAVE. IT IS A BRAIN WASHING PROGRAMME ALREADY WITNESSED IN WESTERN NATIONS TO A DESTRUCTIVE EFFECT.

    mustafa kemal belonged to a masonic lodge, which you can still find in istanbul, masons are satan worshippers!! The work od satan will be plain to see in the videos when typing in the serach terms.

  100. Firewoman says:

    Iceman is a perfect example of a satan follower disguising as a modernist secularist. May he and other kemalist bastards burn in hell!

  101. Usman Peerzada - India says:

    Dear brother DARKSTAR, Salam Alikum, thank you for such a fantastic overlook and expressions about the ideas. I 100% agree with you. Satanist has to go and leave Turkey. Turkey belongs to real Muslims and we will take it one day Inshalla. Iceman leave Turkey now with your family to save you and your family. Or it will be too late.

  102. Prabu Siliwangi says:

    Iceman, your head is indeed made of stone carved by Mustafa spirit and He indeed succeeded in brainwashing you.
    I would like to clarify again point bay point even I’m entirely sure you will continue making baseless refusals and drag this discussion on until the Doomsday:

    1. The AKP Government is still not allowing women wearing religious Hijab right? I is what you call freedom?
    2. This is an excerpt of Reuters news (http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKL2870693820080128, )
    A Turkish court imposed a suspended 15 month jail sentence on Monday on a professor for insulting modern Turkey’s founder, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, in a case likely to draw European Union criticism.
    The court in the western port city of Izmir sentenced Professor Atilla Yayla over comments he made at a 2006 conference in which he questioned whether Ata’s beliefs contributed to Turkey’s progress.
    Yayla, a liberal who teaches political science at Ankara’s Gazi University, had also asked why pictures and statues of Ataturk are still so ubiquitous in modern Turkey.
    Insulting Ataturk’s memory is a crime in Turkey.

    Is this what you call freedom? A Turkish no an Arab or an Indian or not me who says that Mustafa Statues are ubiquitous
    3. Chine Indonesian is not allowed to President, it sounds pretty plausible,
    Can a Greek become a Turkey’s President? Yet Chinese Indonesians are now enjoying the same privileges as their ingenious compatriots, if happened to have spoken to them to the contrary, you must have talked to few Chinese Indonesians who had embezzled Bank Indonesia Liquidity Aid in the tune of tens of billions of dollars during the 1998 monetary crisis, or you must have spoken to few corrupt Chinese Indonesian bastards who had stashed illegal money and parked the ill-gotten money in Singapore, Hong Kong or Switzerland.
    Note : I’m not trying to generalize them, note the word “few” .

    4. I have the same opinion with you, those wishing to pursue a separatist aspirations must be dealt with severely, this is the case for Indonesia’s separatist Acehnese in the past and Indonesia’s rug tag Papuan separatists who are engaging in low-level insurgency. But at least can we just try to talk with them and find out their reasons for rebelling against the government?
    5. Muslims are brothers, unless you are not Muslim, I believe that’s not the big deal to talk about their Turkish Muslim brothers and Sisters who were once the center of the pious Ottoman Caliphate , who are now pursuing a blind Westernization and extreme secularism and who are now becoming prisoners of Israel and the West.
    6. I didn’t mix it up, but you did, I tried to point out that India’s Nuke Father actually is a Muslim, this is an example of an achievement of a citizen of a truely democratic nation vis-à-vis those living under the Kemalist Fascist Fake Democracy.
    7. You seem to forget that “Muslim” Turks Muslim Kurds kill each other. And please also note the following facts :
    a. Darfur conflict is between Arabs and not between Muslims, Afro Christians,
    Note: that I don’t try to just their acts are justified
    b. Aceh conflict had been resolved and put to end a long time ago in the wake of the Tsunami, do I have to repeat it over and over again?
    c. In Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq, Muslims kill each other? Try not to see things in plain black and white, they had been victims of “ the Imperial Power” (this is quoted from Venezuela’s President Hugo Chavez Remarks) who are keen on seeing Muslims divided.
    8. Tell me who are they?
    9. You seem to always blame Kurds for the Turkey’s economic achievement mediocrity. Indonesia in the past fought separatism in two fronts (Papua and Aceh), What do say?
    10. Drinking habit is tolerated yet people trying to express their aspirations were curbed, twenty- plus Islamic Parties had been banned, and even The Constitutional Court is now ordering the banning of The AKP and try to jail its leaders. is this what you call freedom?
    We care because Turkish Muslims are our brothers.
    11. You said the Israel Defense Forces are 20 % Arabs? You seem to keen on making things up!! , please read carefully the following Wikipedia quotation :
    From among non-Bedouin Arab citizens, the number of volunteers for military service—some Christian Arabs and even a few Muslim Arabs—is minute, and the government makes no special effort to increase it.
    In practice, however, a large number of Israeli employers placing “wanted” ads include the requirement “after military service” even when the job is in no way security-related, which is considered as a euphemism for “no Arab/Haredim need apply”. The test of former military service is also frequently applied in admittance to various newly-founded communities, effectively barring Arabs from living there. Also, the Israeli national airline El Al hires only pilots who had served in the Air Force, which in practice excludes Arabs from the job.
    This is your favorite FAQ Where were the Arabs when the real war happened in WW1? Ask Lawrence of Arabia and other British agents for having successfully gnawed on the Caliphate Arab territories and installed master puppet like Saud and their pawns.
    And here comes the ridiculous question : where does Israel get their oil?
    The Answer :
    Traditionally, Israel has relied on expensive, long-term contracts with nations like Mexico( oil), Norway (oil), the United Kingdom (oil), Australia (coal), South Africa (coal), and Colombia (coal) for its energy supplies.
    Where does the money come from?
    The answer :
    Part of the money comes from the lucrative arms deals with its western-minded- yet-always-kept-turned-away neighbor.
    Here is another ridiculous question
    Who supports the USA the most? Arab Saudi, Kuwait etc ?
    The question warrants another question:
    What country is NATO’ s LARGEST standing army outside the US?
    Who provided the most reliable logistics support during US-led war on Saddam-era Iraq?

  103. nathira says:

    How did Ataturk die?

  104. N.H.F. says:

    thank u so much for the truthful and unbiased information that u spend ur precious time on writing. I am glad that kemal is dead, may allah have no mercy on his soul. I am also pretty optimistic about how things are shaping up in Turkey. I hope this country sees a future brighter than that of the last century. Allah bless u Mohamed.

  105. AYZ says:

    i must say that you are all brainwashed into hating this great man and founder of the turksih nation. what proof do you have that he is infact a freemason, a jew and a homosexual. After all, was he ever officially caught in homosexual relationships witha man? and was he ever caught making jewish prayers? NO! moreover, there are pictures of him praying! and you argue that books are banned on the topic of “how evil ataturk is” but there are other books in Turkey that argue that Ataturk is a good muslim. Even if he was a homosexual, a jew and a freemason; i want to point out that the fact that he has done so much in creating a new country from the ruins of a crumbling empire…one which unlawfully took the caliphate away from the arabs with the sword, an empire whose caliphates NEVER married a single muslim turk or arab wife, but always beautiful greek, albanian and macedonian wives. He established a system of perfect rule that in a matter of less than a 100 years made Turkey a major world power and a strong nation. And for all you people who bad mouth this dead man…i would like to give you this example of the Prophets hadith:

    The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) wanted to drive home the meaning of backbiting to his Companions through questions and answers. He asked them,’Do you know what backbiting is?’ They replied, ‘Allah and His Messenger know best’. He said, ‘It is saying something about your brother which he would dislike’. Someone asked, ‘What if I say something about my brother which is true?’ The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, ‘If what you say of him is true, it is backbiting and if it is not true you have slandered him.’ (Reported by Muslim, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi, and An-Nasa’i)

    Therefore; any harsh, evil or plain old rude comment written about ataturk on this site is one that will evidently send you to Hell!

  106. AYZ says:

    Prabu Siliwangi … please do n0t get information of wikipedia and show it too us. Wikipedia is an unreliable source an most likely anything you read on it is made up. I can go on Wikipeida right now and write that the Israeli defense force is made up of 100% arab muslims because wikipedia can be altered by anyone. What you read is most likely a lie. Do not source information from wikipedia and come here and post it as fact.

  107. Ani says:

    I am PURE BLOOD ARMENIAN , and i dont care about Turks, nor i like them. remeber Apri 24 ,1915 .Wikipediam it is not a lie. World is not stupid. Accept the truth.

  108. Ani says:

    You said “The Kuran says there is only one Islam”
    How stupid you people are. Kuran said if you sue site you go to hell, well all the sue side bombers are MUSLUM. Wake up smell the roses. What Kuran says and what Muslim does is not the same thing, you may fool other’sbut not this Armenian.

  109. Ani says:

    I found this ne of the comments someone had left”:SO TUKEY IS THIS THE LIFESTYLE YOU WISH TO ASPIRE TO??:
    The answer is NO , i lived there, it is a misarable place left ,and never look back again.

  110. Bahjat Sharef says:

    Thank you brother Moheet.

    First, the link to the book has been hijacked as numerous good Muslim web sites! I even did a search in google.com on the book and it did not show at all. This is how the truth is suppressed.

    The British and the Europeans in general, conquered vast areas of the world not because they were powerful (they only came from an Island) but because they used conniving and deception, and took advantage of the trusting naïve local population they planned to conquer and colonize! They came disguised as research scientists, archeologists, geologists, etc., then recruited and planted agents from the local population and infested it with spies.

    The British, the French and the Russians collaborated to detroy the Last Khilafah led by Ottoman Turks. As usual, they used conniving and deceptive methods to divide-and-conquer the Muslim World as they did in India, East Asia and Africa. They drafted locals into the military to fight their own people and defend the colonial invaders. In Ottoman Turkey, they used minorities like the Jews, Greeks and Armenians to weaken Turkey from within and conspired to weaken Turkey militarily in numerous wars with Russia. They also recruited and planted agents and traitors among Turky’s military, and Mustafa Kamal was their top man to deliver the Ottoman Khilafah to them.

    Mustafa Kamal did not lead the Turkish military except to defeat.

    The legacy of Mustafa Kamal, wrongly nicknamed “Ataturk”, must end and die forever. He was a traitor of his country and of all Muslims. He collaborated with the British, French and Russians to bring down the Ottoman Khilafah and surrendered Palestine, Syria and the entire Shaam region to British and French forces.

    It is no secret for Muslims to know that so-called Mustafa Kamal was a Jew. Some reports say his mother was Jewish and his father was unknown!.

    That is why he is protected by the constitution which made it a crime to criticize him even after his death, to protect his legacy of a secular Turkey oppressing the 99% Muslim population to the extent of banning Turkish Muslim women from wearing the head scarf! His legacy continues to be protected by the West then by an elite gang of Masonic military generals, judges, lawyers, business men, journalists and university professors.

    What kind of constitution is this that suppresses the practice of the religion of 99% of the population and specifically bans the people it is supposed to serve and protect from practicing what they cherish most in their life, their Faith? How can a constitution stoop so low as to ban a head scarf and suppress a most basic human right? How can a constitution be so prejudice against its own people?

    Moreover, Turkey was far more advance and powerful under the Islamic Khilafah than it has ever been. The Ottoman Khilafah was the Super Power of the world industrially, economically, militarily and in every way one can think of. For this, the Zionists among Christians and Jews conspired not only to dismantle the Khilafah but to make sure it never rose again any where around the world.

  111. Ogeday Koray says:

    If you dont like turkey STAY OUT OF IT..we dont want lunatics like you in our country…
    IF you want to live in an ‘real’ muslim country buzz of to saudi arabia or iran and complain there..if you can..without being killed…so buzz of..We turks are first of all TURK and secondly muslim, jew, christian or atheist. Secondly we dont like arabs cause they killed our soldiers, raped our wives and killed our children with the brits..thats why we are allies with Israel..and thats also the reason why no turk will ever trust a arab..but however in my Great Nation there is place for everyone who want to live and let live..even if he believes in apes or in satan..our constition (of ataturk) gives him the same rights as a jew christian or muslim….

  112. Ogeday Koray says:

    Just forgot to mention about the banned book of ataturk..everyone in turkey can ordered via internet or the local book store:

    http://www.kitapyurdu.com/kitap/85300/hayatvehatiratim123rizanur

    and about de comment of ataturk being this and that..buzz of and send a letter to your own leaders..oeps sorry you dont have leaders because your people are so stupid that the only forgot to THINK.

    but want to thank you all..after reading the comments i am more pleased that im born in a great nation called turkey..with its great founder ATATURK…

  113. Ogeday Koray says:

    Dear Mohamed..would you be so kind to delete the turkish flag of the list of countries..my great flag doesnt belong in the same page as the other 55! oh and to wake you from your dream…turkey will be a islamic country as soon as you kill the last turk…and cause we turks never lost a war..i would say good luck..or as we turks say..’gel de gorelim”..(come and see).

  114. Prabu Siliwangi says:

    Iran was used to be Israel’s one of closest allies yet now now is its staunchest nemesis…

    Will the same circumstances occur in the former core land of the great Ottoman Empire?

  115. Tarkan Goren says:

    Islam is not allowed in Turkey. Even though it may look like Islamic country it is a secular country, 90% of Turkish people never even read quran, they’re pretend muslims that’s all. This is caused by the fear of burning in hell which is a big BS anyway

  116. tarken says:

    Turks have protected İslam and islamic nations a long years .When arabic nations collaborate with english at first world war ,Ataturk and glorious turkish mehmetcik protected islam and they protected our mosques .Therefore ,Ataturk worked for Islam more than many socolled muslims.

  117. salam says:

    If muslim want to establish a just nation for all muslims it must be lead by the Arabs and only muslim arabs. Now, this is not racism or aragonce. It is the truth and all non- arab mulim know it. I don’t balme what ataturk did to Islam, because those sultans(if you search carefully ) did worst then him, by oppressing all muslims, dividing them , immorlizing them, and etc. That’s why every time when their soldiers came to YEMEN never came back.

  118. salam says:

    There is a comment by Ogeday Koray where he said that Turkey never lost a war, OHOHOHOOHH. You really made me laugh. If you know a turkish whose more than 90 years old ask him or her about YEMEN. Yes, you may not know it but actually the ottman empire tried 3 times unsucessfuly to take over Yemen. There were many lost battles of the turkish army in yemen. One of them was in WWI out side the capital sanaa, in which all turkish soldiers were killed to the last solidier. Now the town where the battle occured is called madthbh (in arabic massacre).

  119. trc says:

    Ey Türk gençliği ! Birinci vazifen, Türk istiklâlini, Türk Cumhuriyeti’ni, ilelebet muhafaza ve müdafaa etmektir.
    Mevcudiyetinin ve istikbalinin yegâne temeli budur. Bu temel, senin en kıymetli hazinendir. İstikbalde dahi, seni bu hazineden mahrum etmek isteyecek dahilî ve harici bedhahların olacaktır. Bir gün, istiklâl ve Cumhuriyet’i müdafaa mecburiyetine düşersen, vazifeye atılmak için, içinde bulunacağın vaziyetin imkân ve şerâitini düşünmeyeceksin! Bu imkân ve şerâit, çok namüsait bir mahiyette tezahür edebilir. İstiklâl ve Cumhuriyetine kastedecek düşmanlar, bütün dünyada emsali görülmemiş bir galibiyetin mümessili olabilirler. Cebren ve hile ile aziz vatanın bütün kaleleri zaptedilmiş, bütün tersanelerine girilmiş, bütün orduları dağıtılmış ve memleketin her köşesi bilfiil işgal edilmiş olabilir. Bütün bu şerâitten daha elîm ve daha vahim olmak üzere, memleketin dahilinde, iktidara sahip olanlar gaflet ve dalâlet ve hattâ hıyanet içinde bulunabilirler. Hattâ bu iktidar sahipleri, şahsî menfaatlerini, müstevlîlerin siyasi emelleriyle tevhid edebilirler. Millet, fakr ü zaruret içinde harap ve bîtap düşmüş olabilir.
    Ey Türk istikbalinin evlâdı! İşte, bu ahval ve şerâit içinde dahi vazifen, Türk istiklâl ve Cumhuriyetini kurtarmaktır! Muhtaç olduğun kudret, damarlarındaki asil kanda mevcuttur!

    Gazi Mustafa Kemâl ATATÜRK
    20 Ekim 1927

  120. Si Kasep Jaya says:

    @TRC
    This is the perfect example of the “modern” Kemalist Turkey has brought about , a Turkish who even can not post a comment in an English Forum.

    Please wake up Turkish brothers and sisters Kemalism is doomed to a failure…
    Don’t follow the path of the devil, embrace the truth..
    Allah bless you all..

  121. Syafiq says:

    Assalamualaikum..

    A leader of Islam should always lead the daily 5 prayers with the Jamaah, in the mosque.
    But did MKA lead the sholat 5 times a day?

    The shamefull death of MKA is one of tha azab Allah had sent.
    The ulamas in turkey also once said, that not only the Turkey`s land, but the whole earth would`n accept the dead body of him..

    Wallahua`lam..

  122. berkin says:

    Hey Brotheers!!!!!Dr.Rıza Noor was a soldier with Ataturk ın the ındependence war..and Ataturk made him parliamentarian..but after he got ill Ataturk’friend took him Europe to make him healty but ın NUTUK Ataturk wrote that Rıza Noor had rebelled ALBANİANS against Ottoman in Balcans..so that Rıza Noor wanted to take revenge from Ataturk and he wrote all the trooths as wrond!!NEVER but NEVER believe his writings!!He wrote a book ..for only revenge..ALLAH KNOW EVERYTHİNG!!ALLAH PROTECT US FROM LYİNGS!!Rıza NOOR was a traitor and a male had ruined him when he was a child..and he had always wanted to be female..the doctors had said he was a crazy..Thıs man ıs a taritor..he wanted to take revenge and hi deflected all the truths…HEY ARABİC WORLD..ANYMORE PLEASE WAKE UP!!DONT SLEEP!!THEY SAY LYİNG YOU!!THEY DEFLECT HİSTORİCAL EVENTS!!!

  123. berkin says:

    Caliphate bougth the home to England in 1920s..Caliphate declared all the Turks who fight with enemies as ateist..And after the independence the public killed the men who helped enemies like caliphate..So the last sultan of Ottoman got afraid and he escaped to Maltha…here %99 muslims and when he removed caliphae nobody rebelled..Şeyh Said was a traitor kurd who helped for England to occupy Musul..If he didnt rebel,we would get Musul…but he became difficulty for Turkish Army to help english soldiers…And according to kemalist secularism noone can interfere on the other ones..for example i donr drink but i cant say anythıng my friend who drink..noone can cut head of people for Allah..and the women didnt have to wear çarşaf..in any case ın Quaran there isnt carşaf..Ataturk removed carşaf..it made women ..Ataturk gave women the rights of marriage,divorce,working,inheritance…his clothes ıs not about not only language and clothes..ın ottoman %1 knew writing-reading..and only they could read Quaran..arabic letters was very hard for turkish society!today %89 know writing-reading..and they can read Quaran!and ıt ıs forbidden to use Islam ın politics…politicans must ınterest our economic,cultural,social,humanistic,educational,militarily problems..we have a master of religional subjects..Ali Bardakoğlu…he is duty on religional subjects..our president mustn get vote by using people’religional emotions..they mustn make ostentation..and this geography nationalism is an obligation..i said ”i am a Turk”among my european friends but among my arabic friends i say ”i am a muslim”..meanly Turkish nationalism protects us from imperialism..we are very very happy here..ın Turkey Islam ıs holy.because ıt ıs special..i learned my prophet’s life ın Ataturk’s schools..i learned Islamic history ın his schools…i learned also the events before ıslam and after ıslam ın turkish history..thanks to ataturk..i am proud of being muslim and i think i am luckier to live ın democratic,free,secular the Republic of Turkey..

  124. berkin says:

    Ataturk didnt use ISLAM to influence on people..here there are lots of mezheps…religions….noone know he lead daily 5 prayers…i can prayer but i dont say the other people it..it is my special life…you arabics!!our difference is this..we cant cut people’s head for Allah..we cant beat people who drink alcohol..or we cant kill people who dont lead 5 prayer…ALLAH WİLL DECİDE THE TRUTHS.NOONE BUT NOONE CAN INTERFERE ON THE OTHERS..ın Turkey how arabics seemm do you know???when we see the situation of middle east for example,we get pity and we sadden..because ıtısnt ISLAM..It ıs not ıslam…….to beat women who are bareheaded..,to marry with 9 aged girls…,to think women as devils….,to believe all the but all the sayings for ıslam….it is not ıslam..the sharia’a in today is not islam…….i am sure i wish our prophet live,he will sudden the situation of human ın ıslamic world..i am very unhappy for my arabic friends..i am very very happy at Türkiye…there is freedom..democracy…secularism…human rights…i am lucky but i wish my arabic friends wake up..America make sleepy you by using ISLAM…they don allow you to learn the historical truuths..you always learn same ideological stuff..du you think that why ten millions of people love Mustafa Kemal???you cant do anythıng against him..because your ınformations about hıstory ısnt truee..ALLAH KNOWS EVERYTHİNG..You cant degrade his revoulitions to alcohol and clothes…you get your claws into alcohol and women’body-hair…ıt ıs tragic……..LONG LİVE DEMOCRATİC SECULARİST HUMANİST THE REPUBLİC OF ATATÜRK TÜRKİYESİ!!!!!

  125. berkin says:

    MUSTAFA KEMAL ATATÜRK’S ADDRESS TO TURKISH YOUTH
    Turkish Youth, Your first duty is to preserve and to defend Turkish
    Independence and the Turkish Republic forever. This is the very
    foundation of your existence and your future. This foundation is your most
    precious treasure. In the future, too, there may be malevolent people at
    home and abroad, who will wish to deprive you of this treasure. If some
    day you are compe lled to defend your independence and your Republic, you
    must not hesitate to weigh the possibilities and circumstances of the
    situation before doing your duty. These possibilities and circumstances
    may turn out to be extremely unfavourable. The enemies c onspiring against
    your independence and your Republic may have behind them a victory
    unprecedented in the annals of the world. It may be that, by violence and
    trickery, all the fortresses of your beloved fatherland may be captured,
    all its shipyards occupied, all its armies dispersed and every corner of
    the country invaded. And sadder and graver than all these circumstances,
    thos e who hold power within the country may be in error, misguided and
    may even be traitors. Furthermore, they may identify personal interests
    with the political designs of the invaders. The country may be
    impoverished, ruined and exhausted. Youth of Turkey’s future, even in
    such circumstances it is your duty to save Turkish Independence and the
    Republic. You will find the strength you need in your noble blood.

  126. berkin says:

    LONG LİVE KEMAL!!LONG LİVE TURKİSH REVOULOTİON!!THANKS FOR ALLAH TO GİVE US KEMAL!!!!ŞÜKRAN FOR ATATÜRK!!!TURKİSH ARMY,TURKİSH SECULAR YOUTHY,TURKİSH UNİVERSİTİES,TURKİSH JUDGEMENT,AND TEN MİLLİONS OF ATATURKİST WONT LET BİGOTS!!!FOREVER……………ALLAH PROTECT US FROM BİGOTS!!LİVE REAL TURKİSH MUSLİMS!!!!

  127. berkin says:

    HEYY!!MY PUBLİC!!I AM KEMÂL MUSTAFA!!!
    If my principles remained the back of era.
    If the science is not the best guide..
    Dry my mouth,my tounge…
    Forget all my sayings,
    Demolish all my statuaries…

    If the independence
    Is not the most important price..
    If you want to leave the serviles
    With their tackles..
    Forget all my sayings,
    Demolish my statuaries..

    If there ısnt the meanıng of civilazition whic is coeval..
    If you want to take the time to mediaeval..
    If you love the man who screwed up the things which are professional..
    Forget all the my sayings,
    Demolish my statuaries…

    If it didnt finish the pain of war,wehemence…
    If ”peace at home!peace at world”is senseless..
    If still,there were purses of battles…
    Forget my all the sayings,
    Demolish my statuaries.

    If you mis the fez,veil..
    If you prefer the sunny to night which is territorial..
    If you want aid from sheikh,mürid,dervishes..
    If you want cure from amulet,healers..
    Forget all my sayings,
    Demolish my statuaries…

    If you want females and males not to be commensurate..
    If you want females to wear çarşaf because of bigots’ bate..
    ıf you say that ”our female dont meet education
    It ıs our predestination”..
    Forget all my sayings,
    Demolish my statuaries…

    If ıt ıs outnumber for you,freedom,republic..
    If you miss the padishah,Sultan..
    If you couldnt understand the importance of being nation..
    Remain servant!Remain bigoted
    Wait the fatwa of Caliphated
    Forget all the my sayings..
    Demolish my statuaries..
    Give a horse the reins to me!!!!!!!

  128. Abdul Qadr Haqqani says:

    I’m a Muslim. I have to say that I’m pretty much neutral about all these.

    First of all, we as Muslim must not spit down each others throats with these arguments. With all these observations and what are being concluded as what kind of man Ataturk is on a Muslim perspective. He is definitely not practicing what is needed as being a Muslim nor am I able to say confidently that he is a Muslim hero which we should look up to or hail upon.

    And I believe that the Great Judge up above knows best how to deal with him. And we as humble humans have no right to decide whether this man should be burnt in hell or anything nasty should being hurled upon him.

    What happens in Turkey is their domestic problem. And we can’t run into someone else household and tell them how to run their own family business.

    On the argumentation that he destroyed the last caliph? Well, I find it to be a baseless argumentation. A strong empire like the Ottomans don’t crumbles into the sand of time just like that. And we definitely can’t blame the people of Turks for that. This is not just about the Turks issue here. We are talking about the Muslim community collectively at that point of time. Be it Arabs, Persians, Moguls and others of the same faith. We never have been united ever since the death of our Great Prophet Mohammed. (PBUH).

    And we absolutely are in no position to tell the Turks to clean up their act. We got to look at our own backyard firstly and see if there still lots more to be done.

    One issue that really baffles me is this. Yes, I’m talking to you Arabs. What makes you thing that Islam is your ownership and only your tribe will be able to send the right message across the world on Islam? As a matter of fact I found out that most likely those of you who are very much intoxicated with wealth and pleasure of life are most likely to be racist and establishing the ranking and packing order system within your people and the Islamic community. Why Syeds are only supposed to be married to Sharifas? To preserve the blood and family lines of Prophet Mohammed? That’s a Bull!

    When Hezbollah was at war with Israel recently, I was amazed how the global Muslim community stood together to celebrate with pride on the success of Hezbollah in containing the Israel army without any issue of who is Sunni or who is Shia.

    Under the same breath these arabs felt vulnerable seeing the unanticipated rise of Iran influence in the region.

    The King of Jordan has audacity to say that Iran is spreading the distorted influence of Shia into the region when his kingdom is at peace with the Israelis. Does that make sense?

    And the wealthy Arab nations are united to see Iran reached to her own demise. What happening to Iran today is what exactly happened to Turkey decades ago.

    In today’s world as what I perceive, there are really no great Islamic leaders that are able to lead the global Muslim community in unison. Not on our watch definitely. And definitely not the Arabs. Lots of our Islamic practices are into many diversions for political, community and leadership influential purposes.

    The Taliban rose up to power with good intention. To dispose the corrupted post war Mujahedeen whom, after the taste of success, they had forgotten the true way of managing Islamic teachings and politics. Taliban filled in the gap and again did the same mistakes. I believe the Ottoman success also leads to their own demise brought upon by their careless leaders and commanders.

    The next glorified Islamic era will come. And it will rise from the west. And we are seeing signs emerging there.

    Muslim converts there are much more pious and appreciative of their new found faith then those who are born in the regions of Islamic origin.

    Already the western civilization has already equipped with great advancement in science and technologies that are moulding today’s world. Call it supremacy. Can you imagine if Islam rise from there and swept across the globe in the distant future? Yes. They will be the one who will be correcting us to the rightful teaching of Islam and you arrogant Arabs will be like a pariah feudal community until you being converted into a true humble Muslim.

    I have relatives in turkey. And I have been there too many times. And I have gone to many mosques there to do my prayers or read the Qur’an without anyone stopping me. Established relatives and friends gathering at home to celebrate religious purpose without any army or police knocking on the door to stop us. And yes I have been to Iran. And also have Shia relatives and friends and they are just like any other humble Muslims as well. Even if they love or hate their nation’s politics they don’t appreciate aliens meddling into their own country affairs. That’s private matters.

    And come to think about it there are so many places in other parts of the globe where Muslims are not having the privileges to practice their faith freely and are in a much worse off situation.

    And what we are arguing about here only create divisions and hatred and further enhancing the gap between us.

    The real respectable Muslims whom I had came across and spoke too. They don’t care much about what happening in the global politics. They don’t get into debates or arguments. They just concentrate. Concentrate on being a real Muslim equipped with dua’ for other Muslim Brothers and Sisters. They know that these revelations are all from Allah brought upon to us for own carelessness and we are all promised that after the fall of shame we are encountering now, a time will come when Islam will rise to its undisputable glory and all divisions of Islamic sect will be united by one true great Muslim leader of that time to bring mankind to their rightful path.

    That time has been told and said by our prophet time after time. And it will come. Till then…we can chose to argue, hurt and judge one another and make it worse but not change a thing. Not solve anything.

    Salam…

    • Abdullah Agler says:

      Taking down the Caliphate (that is exactly wath mustafa Ke mal did) is not just a turkish domestic issue because the Caliphate is matter concerning the whole Ummah. It’s nothing more then normal to let the whole ummah discuss such a villain.

  129. berkin says:

    How you Arabics can be stupid???If thıs great leader Mustafa Kemâl ATATURK werent be,this map would be valid instead of the Republic of Turkey’s today map…!!http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/TreatyOfSevres_%28corrected%29.PNG

  130. brother enver dropped some interesting insight!

    iceman bro why dont you put some of that effort you put in researching your countries military history and read the quran and about islam and its teachings maybe you will find some agreement in your heart with it you have to remeber you cant always judge islam the ”religion of truth” by muslims or the behaviour of certain arabs remember my brother because you are a turk and turkey is a muslim country if any body harms you i would definatly defend you and the prophet mohamed (pbuh) prophised about your great nation but dont change sides because the empire has fallen, we arent glory hunters we stick through the good times and the hard times just like u do with your football team
    peace and guidance to you all and me too
    salam

  131. Si Kasep Jaya says:

    @ Berkin,
    After running through your comments I was wondering who is exactly worth of being called a bigot?

    Come on bro those participating in this discussion are not all Arabs and all of the traits you associated with them are not necessarily present in all Arab countries, see Qatar, UEA for yourself.
    They may as well conveniently label you a secular Bigot or to be precise an ultra secular, Kemalist Bigot..

    May Allah bless you

  132. Si Kasep Jaya says:

    I agree with you Mustafa Kemal is a great man, he had done a great job for your country and without him Turkey would have been part of Greece or a British protectorate or yet you should not blindly follow all his teachings , right?

    This applied to our Indonesia’s founding father Soekarno who had steered our country toward Independence yet 20 years after independence he made a mistake by flirting with Communism , playing a major role in making Indonesia Communist Party the third biggest Communist Party outside USSR and China and as a result the majority of his fellow countrymen abandoned him.

    I’m a Muslim Indonesian and am keenly look forward to seeing all Muslims be Turkish, Persian, Indian, Arab etc united…

  133. Goethe Tolstoy says:

    It is not important to save a Nation (Turkey), but to save the Humanity (Islam).
    For the Ottoman empire fought Muslims from all nations (Arabs, Russians, Macedonians, Bosnians, Albanians, etc.) not only Turks. At the end, some atheist come and took all this from them (killing the caliphate) and making himself a god of his new-created secular world, like stalin and tito did.
    One may think that the turks won the war (thanks to Ataturk), but if you see todays picture, results of his regime, each day dead people by their Raki and Efes, on the streets of Istanbul more prostitutes than in Moscow, the underground mafia at the top of the world lists…
    so who got the War? Ataturk yes, with his anarchistic ideals, but the Humanity Not!

    btw, watch this short movie to see who actually Ataturk was:

    Peace to all!

  134. truth says:

    U people are all full of shit, if you idiots are so pro islam or whatever, why didnt u monkeys go to afghanistan when it was a so called true islamic country? Why do u scum bags run to the western countries and beg them plz plz let me into your country( you would probably give your ugly sand monkey arab wives to get into the west). And think about this u monkeys all run to the west, then when u get a bit of food in your stomach, enjoy the kafurs health care system, go to there schools, enjoy there freedoms, live of there welfare, use there credit cards, etc etc. U turn into ungrateful pigs who make trouble and talk all this crap about sharia etc…. pffff what scum. Am i lieing? if the west said u monkeys can all come over, there would be no1 in any islamic country left. So why are you idiots talking all this crap about caliphate etc when u all run to kafur democracy countries? why not run to saudi arabia, afghanistan,iran? u can live like monkeys under there sharia laws. But your all liars you all know the western democracies is what you all want to run to but when you get there you slap the hand that feeds you animals..

  135. Goethe Tolstoy says:

    truth.. go to a psychiatrist
    and don’t do harm to the humanity for God’s sake
    Afganistan is not Islamic, nor Iraq, they are fabricated American states, to destroy Islam, as well as Muslims. Why dont u have suicides in Bosnia, Macedonia, Malasiya, Indonesia, Turkey, Albania, etc. etc. because there are no american spies there.

    Another thing, Muslims don’t go to the west, West is going to Islam, because is the only way to save the ethics and moral standards which they dream about.

    The greatest European intellectual of all times W. Goethe said:
    “Whether the Koran is of eternity?
    I don’t question that!…
    That it is the book of books
    I believe out of the muslim’s duty.”

    “Ob der Koran von Ewigkeit sei?
    Darnach frag’ ich nicht ! …
    Da_ er das Buch der B|cher sei
    Glaub’ ich aus Mosleminen-
    Pflicht”
    (WA I, 6, 203)

    “Stupid that everyone in his case
    Is praising his particular opinion!
    If Islam means submission to God,
    We all live and die in Islam.”

    “Ndrrisch, da_ jeder in seinem Falle
    Seine besondere Meinung preist!
    Wenn Islam Gott ergeben hei_t,
    In Islam leben und sterben wir alle.”
    (WA I, 6, 128)

    “The extinction of race consciousness as between Muslims is one of the outstanding achievements of Islam, and in the contemporary world there is, as it happens, a crying need for the propagation of this Islamic virtue.”

    A.J. Toynbee, CIVILIZATION ON TRIAL, New York, 1948, p.205.

    It is so unfortunate that the Christian West, instead of sincerely trying to understand the phenomenal success of Islam during its earlier time, considered it as a rival religion. During the centuries of the Crusades this trend gained much force and impetus and a huge amount of literature was produced to tarnish the image of Islam. But Islam has begun to unfold its genuineness to the modern scholars whose bold and objective observations on Islam belie all the charges leveled against it by the so-called unbiased orientalists.

    “Islam is the fastest growing religion in North America.” TIMES MAGAZINE

    “Islam continues to grow in America, and no one can doubt that!” CNN, December 15, 1995

    “Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people…” HILLARY RODMAN CLINTON, Los Angeles Times, May 31, 1996, p.3

    “Islam is the fastest growing religion in North America.” TIMES MAGAZINE

    “The doctrine of brotherhood of Islam extends to all human beings, no matter what color, race or creed. Islam is the only religion which has been able to realize this doctrine in practice.” Mr. R. L. Mellema, Holland, Anthropologist, Writer and Scholar.

    “If a man like Muhammed were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness.” George Bernard Shaw

  136. Islam is for dark age people

  137. truth says:

    goethe tolsov

    Your full of crap goethe, hmm let me see in france there is 7mil+ muslims, germany3mil+ holland1mil+ etc etc.. since when does westerners go to so called muslim majority nations?pfffff unless its to take over it or its to build stuff because the people of the middle east are monkeys and cant do anything except for kill each other..
    U guys blame america for this and that blah blah blah but the truth is your people are scum, think about it in islam isnt people supposed to help the poor etc. well if u watch any documentary about pakistan or the mid east or other muslim nations(not all but most) you will see that no1 helps no1 and the true god for these people is MONEY, the rich muslims walk all over the poor muslims. And thats your real problem in muslim nations not america or the jews, you guys are just looking for some1 to blame when in reality its yourselves who r to blame.. And that crap u put about attaturk is stupid, its not even using evidence its just talking crap speculation and it has stupid jew signs etc to make him look bad. How stupid, if you monkeys really had proof u would use it but as ussual ur all LIARS ansd use trickery to try and make your lies seem true.

  138. Goethe says:

    I cannot talk to anyone who is anti-muslim, anti-christian or anti-jew. I didn’t say anything against the jews or the christians, my religion does not permit that. But i have against the american politics, as any sane man should have.

    pls wisit the next link, by the way, is not islamic, seen that u r suffering islamophobia
    i’m sorry about that

    http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/psychopaths.htm

  139. manchild says:

    Atatürk saved Turkey from primitive religious fanatics.

  140. Goethe says:

    manchild
    do you read the facts:
    “Ataturk government abolished Islamic religious institutions; replaced the Islamic calendar with the Gregorian calendar; replace the Arabic script which was used to write the Turkish language with the Latin script and closed all religious schools. In addition Ataturk took over the country’s 70,000 mosques and restricted the building of new mosques. Mosques were to preach according to the Ataturk’s dictates and were used to spread the Kemalist ideology.”

    Is normal according to you that some ruler now come in Russia and tell all the people that they can’t write any more in Cyrillic, but from now on only Japanese script is allowed, they need to forget their calendar with 12 months (u r not 30 years old any more but 19 from today). Then, following Ataturk, he need to close over 70,000 churches and in replace of that the people need to put his image everyehere on their houses, shops, schools, because he is from now on “god”
    This was not requested even by the Prophets Moses, Muhammad, Jesus (peace be upon them all). Do u think Attaturk, the anti-muslim is the saviour as u call it?

  141. Sultan Selim says:

    Kemalism is close to being a history..
    It’s not compatible with humanity

  142. Manchild The Dark Age Man says:

    I really have a pity for those ultra secular extremists worshiping Mustafa Kemal
    Come on, you live in the modern age not the DARK AGE…
    He had done a great job for his fellow countrymen yet he had also done harm too.

    For our Turkish Muslim brothers and sisters Allah bless you all ….
    I long to see you having the bravery like those Iranians deposing Shah the Despot

  143. Kadir says:

    I hate you all stupid heads. You are the shame of our great religion. Mustapha Kemal was an exceptional leader . His dream was to make Turkish people aware of two-faced devilish Hodjas, Mollas, and Sheyhs who are all decayed and forgot the main principles of Islam. He supported to make Turkish as the main language not Arabic! We are not Arabs and we’ll never be like them. Because Arabs are all deteriorated and become perverts. They insult and torture their women, they pressurize the communities they depict Islam as a brutal religion. This is not Islam. Ataturk made us to see the truth. I thank Allah that we are not perverts like you, our way is the right way.

  144. syawwal says:

    subhanallah.
    what are you guys talking about.
    remember all muslim are same in the god eyes,whether ypu are turks.arabs etc. the only different is your taqwa. some of yus will go to hell and some will go to heaven.may allah show me and you all the right path.

    AS a students that know just a little part of islam, i cannot judge if MKA is right or wrong,but if you follow the holy quran and the sunnah,you are in the right way. wake up buddy.

    prophet muhammad (pbuh) had said that at the end of the world,the jews and christian will divide into 72 groups,all will go to hell,muslim will be also seperated into 73 groups.all wil go to hell except 1.the one who follow the quran and the hadith.

    secularisme is things that i cannot accept. follow the muhammad (pbuh) footsteps and his companions footstes, so you will be on the right path.

  145. krusty says:

    Why would the 73 groups all go to hell? they all follow the quran and as for hadiths theres millions of them. Who can really say which 1 is real and which is made up? lets say some1 is following the quran and the hadiths he thinks are correct but when he dies it turns out not to be correct should he go to hell? Why is a religion that is supposed to be the real religion of god so complex? why are there so many sects etc?

  146. Tamer says:

    Ataturk was the greatest and the most modern leader in history. Islam is a dangerous cancer in Turkey, Army waited too long, it is time to stop islamic progress or we can kiss goodbye the democracy

  147. Tamer The Bastard says:

    The “Sick man of Europe” was feared by the entire West. Today the “The healthy man of Europe” “the modern Turkey” is treated with no dignity and holds absolutely no say or position in the world affairs and the Turks still don’t get it!

  148. izzac says:

    Please remove false information about Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. He has passed away for over 70 years and please have some respect. If not removed, you will be notified to ASIO/CIA, where ever the web-site resides.

    Regards,
    Izzac

  149. Mehmet Vesim Ahmet says:

    In response to the question:

    ‘What would have happened to Turkey had Ataturk not stepped up after the defeat of the Caliphate in the Great War?’

    The Turkish people would still have heroically driven out the Christians and regain their independence. The ‘Turkish War of Independence’ was fought by the Muslims of Turkey under such slogans as ‘destroy the Christians’, ‘save the Caliph’, etc. It was percieved to be a Jihad against the infidel invaders at that period (although history text books have distorted the facts). In fact, the Greek Foreign Minister had to issue a statement to the press saying that the fighting against the Turkish rebels was not a war on Islam or Muslims.
    The so-called Ataturk himself was given the title ‘Ghazi’ which means a Holy Warrior who returns from the battlefield. The title was given to him after the Muslim victory which shows that the Turkish people who gave him the title percieved him to be a saviour of Islam.
    The Turkish War of Independence was at least as much a Holy War as it was a Nationalist War.
    It is an entirely different thing that Kemal Pasha used this victory to secure himself power – shrewd and manipulative as he was.
    Moreover, I am sure the Europeans would prefer a stooge ruling Turkey than trying to colonise it and facing an inevitable Jihad which would drive them out.

  150. Si Kasep Jaya says:

    To Izzac :

    Go ahead , report to Mossad

  151. WESTERN TURKS says:

    ATATURK NOT ONLY SAVED HIS NATION

    HE SAVED WESTERN CIVILIZATION ALSO…

  152. WESTERN TURKS says:

    BY THE WAY..GOD BLESS U.S. AND TURKEY AND ALL WESTERN CIVILIZATIONS…

  153. WESTERN TURKS says:

    ATATURK,AND TURKISH NATIONALISTS ARE DIFFERENT.ATATURK NEVER TALKED ABOUT ISLAM…THEY ARE TALKING…

  154. afre says:

    i love the muslim girl i have respekt they love god

  155. Turk says:

    Ataturk saved Islam in Turkey by destroying its enemies.
    I advise you people to read some objective book about our past.

  156. Ayse says:

    OI SO YES..YOUR’E SAYING THAT ALL THE SUE SITE BOMBERS ARE MUSLIMS..WITH WHAT EVIDENCE ARE YOU GOING TO PROVE WHAT YOUR’E SAYING ?

    PEOPLE CAN SAY THEY’RE ANYTHING, BUT THEY MIGHT NOT BE :S

    AND EVERYONE KNOWS WHO THE SUE SIDE BOMBERS ARE..THEY’RE THE ONES LIKE YOU WHO COMMIT SUCH THING AND THEN GO ROUND SAYING IT WAS THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY TRYING TO ACCUSE THEM..WELL GO FOR IT BECAUSE NOTHING IS GOING TO DESTROY 3 BILLION MUSLIMS IN THIS WORLD

  157. Ayse says:

    ATATURK DID NOT SAVE ISLAM
    ATATURK DESTROYED ISLAM
    BECAUSE OF HIM NOW, MUSLIM PEOPLE IN A MUSLIM COUNTRY CANNOT WEAR THEIR HEAD SCARF OVER SOME UN-RELIABLE SUGGESTION STATING THAT HEADSCARF SPOILS FREEDOM

    WELL IF HEADSCARF SPOILS FREEDOM..SO DOES PEOPLE DRESSING UP UN-APPROPRITALEY

    AND WHO WAS ATATURKTO AN EXTENT :S
    THE TURKISH REPUBLICATION MIGHT NOT HAVE EXISTED BEFORE HIM, BUT THE LANGUAGE TURKISH DID..

    IF NOW IT WAS LIKE THE OTTOMAN HISTORY THEN LET ME SEE HOW THOSE PEOPLE BEING SENTENCED TO DEATH IF TRYING TO CHANGE ISLAM IN TURKEY

  158. Erkan says:

    Selamin Aleykum

    First of all it’s very interesting how people think of Mustafa.
    I’m a Muslim Turk living in the Netherlands and I’m also a little bit confused about him after reading your writings. If we are able to think about such theory’s about Mustafa, what could people who are only busy creating theory’s about him argue. What I’m trying to say is that there are people against him and people behind him and both are commenting some arguments which are true or not. I always stay at a neutral position, just trying to be realistic.

    Mustafa has a very interesting life and started at a young age for military academies. He fought at many fronts and grew to a good leader. The Ottoman Empire who ruled Middle-East for 625 years was fallen in parts during the first world war. The last Sultan accepted the terms of the Sevres and wanted to sign it. The Ottoman Empire would consist of many parts ruled by western countries. Mustafa was the one who didn’t want this. He refused the terms of Sevres and wanted to fight against the enemy. It was not Achmed, Hassan, Abdul or what so ever who stand up and refused the terms of Sevres but it was Mustafa. Don’t you all think that this is a important turning point of the Middle-East. How would a Middle-East ruled by western non-Muslim countries consist of, think of it.

    Mustafa was the one who had wake the citizens up and encourage the citizens to defend the last part of the Ottoman Empire. Why were many leaders and friends of Mustafa saying to just surrender and give up, because this battle couldn’t be won. Mustafa kept believed in this independent war. The whole Turkish population fight against many countries. Why haven’t other Muslim countries helped the Ottoman population, the last Ottoman population and even some of them betrayed them. Could a empire who has a existence of 625 years be a bad empire? I don’t think so, the Ottoman Empire did many good things for the Islam. Good things shouldn’t be told but nevertheless they also shouldn’t be forgotten. In the Ottoman Empire everybody was free to speak or believe in what they wanted. Christians had got even the opportunity to pray in mosques. My point is that the good the Ottoman Empire has done to the Middle-East didn’t come from the Middle-East to the last Ottoman Battle. The Turkish population stand for his one and Mustafa was leading them. Where in the world you have seen woman and children fighting a war against the western rich armies? We only had Allah and Mustafa to follow. Turks followed the orders of Mustafa and trusted on the help of Allah. The word Allahuekber was screamed out loud during the battle and praying to Allah was also part of the independence war.

    The enemy didn’t cross the lines. The last Ottoman Empire didn’t lost against the enemy and a new republic of Turkey had to be made. Ottoman was over and it was time for a new republic, Turkish republic. Mustafa had his opinions about modernizing. Could Turkey win another war against the western countries? Turkey had to look like no treat against the enemy. A secular government was the opportunity to breath 40 years more and start a republic. Mustafa wanted a good position for Turkey and had to modernize his republic. I don’t think this leader trusted any other countries and only believed and trusted in the Turkish nation. How in earth can we argue about him being a Muslim or not? He didn’t wanted to push people into a religion but wanted people to think about it and practice it in their own personal life. The burka isn’t even a part of the Islam? Sometimes, you can’t even see if it is a man or woman? Was is districted to wear a headscarf in Turkey? No, his wife and mother also wired headscarves. Was it skilful that Turkey kept behind of today’s Europe or modernize and be a competitive of this empire. Mustafa made a good choice to give people the freedom of believes. There were also non-Muslims in the Republic but everybody has fought against the enemy. Could a Islam driven government be skilful or would a secular republic will acceptable for every citizen? Mustafa made the Koran much more understandable for the population and build enough mosques to let people practice their religion. An important thing in the Islam is that woman and man are equal but it’s something contradictory of our culture. Nevertheless Mustafa made the rights of woman and man equal and therefore some secular decisions had to be made. We can’t just blame Mustafa for all his acts? He is chosen 4 times as a president, so everybody was satisfied though.

    To let the Republic of Turkey exist for another 40 years Mustafa had to make some decisions. Another attack of the enemy couldn’t be won and that would be the end of the Turks. Maybe today’s Turks aren’t practicing the Islam in the right way. But it’s peoples own choice, we can’t blame Mustafa for that. There are 5 praying times and mosques everywhere. Even the Ezan is possible to hear for anybody which is calling you to pray. If there was a system like in Iran everybody had to be pushed to the Islam. In Turkey there is no pushing but learning to believe by studying it yourself. That’s a good thing I think. In the last letter he wrote of the today’s circumstances, that there will be treatments against him. We have to stop blame Mustafa but see the true enemies of the Islam and first of all, start by ourselves instead of judging another.

    Mustafa, Allah bless him, is death. It is not good to talk false things about a death person. And place comments like him to burn in hell is embarrassing. How could people think this? Only Allah has the knowledge of this we can’t even argue this. Allah knows everything better. He saved our ‘Vatan’ and there is nothing more worth then the Koran and Flag you stay for.

    For me he is Ataturk, a great leader of the Turks. He made me proud of what I am, my nation.

    Ne mutlu TÜRKÜM diyene!

    Vesselam.

  159. Ahmet Ali says:

    Nationalism is our greatest enemy and Mustafa Kemal did create just that – he created a sense of Turkish nationhood, actually he was used as a means of creating that wedge between us all..to call each Muslim Indian, Pakistani, Irani, Turk and Arab etc..and fight each other in the name of pride.British sided with Arabs to destroy the Caliphate and then got rid of the Caliphate through Ataturk covertly or overtly so that now we can call each other names in the name of nationality.
    Ataturk is also cited as some places being a freemason, please check what that means..Last day I checked Durex survey of Sexual attitudes in various countries on the net..and Turkish population had the highest number of sexual partners of all the world leaving Europeans and American’s far far behind..Thanks Ataturk, your people are really advancing in some areas.

  160. Muhammad Hadid says:

    Assalaamu ‘alaikum,

    I am indonesian muslim, I love Islam and am dreaming of return of Khilafah Islamiyah in the world.

    Islamic Ottoman doesn’t belong to Turkish people only. He is one of greatest khilafah ever exist in the world. Since I learned about this khilafah, I become understand how much great things have been accomplished by them.

    I just visited turkey, just few days there I understand how bad MKA had done to turkish muslims. It’s just like what Russian done to soviets muslims. But Russians took more extreem measures to illegalize all religious symbol and practices.

    Most of people here drinking khamr, young people kissing and hugging each other in front of public, no more shame in doing it. Even they do this around Topkapi palace which was built by a great hero of Islam Mohd. Al Fatih, la hawlaa walaa quwwata ilaa billaah…

    Most of youngster acts like westerners, I don’t understand why? If they are proud of turkishness why they shall adopt western way of life? Ironic isn’t it? What turkish/nationalist values that Secular people are talking about? Original Turkish people were very religious and loved jihad. Or these people talk about pre islamic peroid which turks were nomadics?

    It’s sad…

  161. Viki Mi says:

    well then…i want to say something important…

    for heaven sakes you lot that like ataturk…..
    LISTEN..!!!
    why did ataurk change a strong muslim commuinty in ottomans…..Y?

    if you are like ataturk saved turkey from non muslims…well enough he did…..AND

    so lets get to the main part…..ottoman was suffering kai….if ataturk was that strong…….

    Y didnt he bring the power of ottoman back….

    YOU ataturk lovers are bad muslims…you are following the step of a wrong man that was against muslim religion by banning headscarfs and he also changed arabic into latin…..

    you know what…..if prophet Muhammed (PBUH) saw him doing it….it would have hurt him so much…..

    what bout ALLAH……

    life after death is going to be bad for you lot…
    THE ATATURK LOVERS

    OK ANSWER ME THEN WHY DID ATATURK BAN HEADSCARFS ?

    WAS HE RELIGIOUS ?

    i thought he was a muslim…….

  162. Blent zg says:

    Yes, Ataturk was an enemy of Islam ! He did his best to cleanse Turkey of Islam ! Never has Islam faced such a enemy !

    But let me tell you know something – he is my hero ! He is the greatest Turk that ever existed ! Only once in a thousand years are such great men born !

    He saved our country when all hope was almost lost. But much more than this cleanse the Turkish mind of the backward, evil mind control that had led us to disaster.

    I don\’t want Turkey to turn into a Iran or Pakistan. I will fight to the death to save Turkey from the Islamists.

    Listen, Arabs/Iranians/Pakistanis/Idonesians you are welcome to visit my country – we are a polite and courteous people. But DO NOT interfere in my country.

  163. Banjo says:

    The biggest enemy to modernisation and freedom is Islam. And Kemal Atatürk knew that.

  164. Rebab Ali says:

    Its high time Turkish people learnt to respect Allah and not to equate Ataturk to the level where he becomes almost equivalent to his stature, the sustainer, cherisher of the world is Allah.No Ataturk, would have functioned without Allah’s will and even our common prophet would not have had the status without the will of Allah..We are just living our lives which are all changing each day..We don’t know if another person arises who puts Ataturk to shame…Also, We consider ourselves brothers and sisters of Turkish people in faith but are concerned that they are putting religious values to oblivion and producing a generation that only respects materialism and blind following of the western culture.

  165. Rebab Ali says:

    I am sorry if I offend anyone but my ideas are that we are creating Fitna among ourselves by calling each others as nationalities.
    I am happy to see a Turkey or any other country that respects their obligations towards Allah and fellow Muslims, if they drink Alcohol, they do so thinking that it is not right in front of Allah and fellow Muslims and not to prove that they are becoming civilised by drinking Alcohol or doing Zina type activities..much in the same way you find Statuory warnings over cigarettes..that it may harm your faith..

  166. Rebab Ali says:

    Having said above here is another point of view that says Ataturk might not have been as bad as we can think. Please check this link :
    http://www.atam.gov.tr/index.php?Page=DergiIcerik&IcerikNo=540
    The problem is that some secular people have come to distort some of his ideas to continue their power politics. May be at that time Ataturk was against the use of religion for gaining power, now it is his secular disciples using his name to sideline the religion of Islam from Turkey’s new generation forever.

  167. Winter Fling says:

    I have a few words to say about the caliphate.. Turkey’s population is 60-70 million, a very small fraction of the world-wide muslim population. These oil-rich gulf countries, Iran, Pakistan, Malaysia, etc.. they should get together and establish the caliphate institution. If not all of them, just the arabic countries should do that. No one is holding back from establishing a Caliphate institution, right ?

    I see one thing.. Muslim world is very weak ! They like to complain, complain,…

  168. Revolution Rennaisance says:

    I find it very amusing the way ultra secularists and Kemalist extremists revere Mustafa Kemal,
    It is reminiscent of the way North Koreans worship their Great General (Kim Jong Il) :) :)

  169. Islamic Unity! says:

    Brothers and Sisters why argue with each other?!? Argueing about what Kemal FAGGOT Pasha has done and about who is responsible for the fall of the Ottoman Caliphate.

    Before the fall, the Caliph was already weak. Muslims all over the world were already being opressed and conquered. Arabs became nationalistic and so did the Turks because of the FAGGOT mentioned above. Whilst this was happening, Britain was in control of India. There was no way the Muslims could have helped each other.

    My brothers and sisters, just remember that this is a punishment to us Muslims as we have strayed from the path of the Prophet Muhammad. (PBUH) Pray for our revival, pray that we may unite, whether sunni or shiite, or whichever school of thought you are from, pray we unite and not just complain and complain some more as Winter Fling said. We must do something about it and that is go back to basics and follow Islam. Only then will we see the return of the Caliphate and a united islam.

  170. Tarek Salah says:

    Maybe you would have been happy if he just let GREAT BRITIAN-FRANCE & GREECE split up turkey!! The man was a HERO! He did great things for the Turkish Nation..he SAVED the Turkish Nation!

    Being secular does not mean you have to not be religious! I am an EGYPTIAN MUSLIM SECULAR MAN and i pray everyday and follow my religion….I simply believe that AS LONG AS YOUR POLITICS DONT CONTRADICT RELIGION OR HARM IT then why involve religion in politics! No one has been able to implement Sharia correctley since the first 5 great Khalif’s…Ataturk did not destroy the Khalifite it WAS DESTROYED AND CORRUPTED CENTURIES BEFORE!

  171. Caliphate Return says:

    Lets just hope we can all stop arguing, just like Islamic Unity said and become united once more. We are arguing while our brothers and sisters are being attacked in Gaza. Why are the Muslims not doing anything? Because we are not powerful enough. Atleast under the Caliph, whether corrupt or not we were able to defend ourselves. Inshallah the return of the Caliph will be swift, may Allah look after us and stop the in fighting between ourselves.

  172. ProudTurk says:

    I love Turkey, but I’m not stupid, we have been brainwashed at school to love this man and I have loved him most of my life. But any educated person can tell that he had anti-Islamic intentions, he never had sex with his wife and molested children. He was a Doenme Jew! He was Gay!
    How can we love a man like this, he now makes me sick!
    OPEN YOUR EYES TURKEY!

  173. Help? says:

    Allah will not help us Muslims until we have returned to our deen. We have become astray and things will not get better for us unless we fix ourselves up first. Return to our deen and inshallah then we shall unite. No matter what you are. Black/white/brown. Turk/Arab/Pakistani.

  174. Pingback: Mosques under attack « Rehmat’s World

  175. Bahadir says:

    Oh my God I can’t believe some of the things my Muslim brothers here have written. Not only did Ataturk save Turkey but he was a holy warrior for the faith and guided by God.
    Atatruk helped Turkey become a strong nation and a rich nation. How? By advancing us in technology. If my Arab brothers had done the same we wouldn’t have the problems we face in Iraq, Palestine ect. Muslims have become so weak compared to Christians, and what do they do? Kill us left and right. This could have all been avoided if we stayed modren and strong, but we fell to ignorance.

  176. Erkan says:

    Not everything is as it seems..

    Standing in the depths of Topkapi Palace, staring at the sword of David, the staff of the Prophet Abraham and the banner of the Prophet Mohammad (s.a.v.).

    The Turks, hold the key to future of
    They are Muslims, and yet democratic. Their governments change at the whim of the people, and have the Prophets banner.

    The Turks have the power, and yet choose wisely not to use it.

  177. Erkan says:

    Not everything is as it seems..

    Standing in the depths of Topkapi Palace, staring at the sword of David, the staff of the Prophet Abraham and the banner of the Prophet Mohammad (s.a.v.).

    The Turks, hold the key to future of peaceful Islam. They are Muslims, and yet democratic. Their governments change at the whim of the people, and have the Prophets banner.

    The Turks have the power, and yet choose wisely not to use it.

  178. @ Bahadir says:

    A holy warrior who helped destory the caliphate…which was the symbol of islamic unity? Turkey is nowhere near as powerful as it once was under the Ottomans during their prime.

    If he really was guided by Allah, maybe he would have claimed the caliph for himself? Then modernised Islam in Turkey and the Arab world.
    However i do agree with you in that Arabs should have tried to advance themselves which they failed to do.

    The Islamic World is going through its own period of The Dark Ages right now as Europe did until the Crusades. Only something dramatic could help change our fortunes. Returning back to our deen and the word of the prophet (pbuh) and unite every muslim country under one banner, the caliphate.

    Imagine, a united caliphate with scientists and nuclear from Pakistan. The determination of the Iranians, along with Turks and Arabs. Islam would be a superpower once more. Wihout unity, we are NOTHING.

  179. Hello i’m an Egyptian Muslim..

    Ataturk DID NOT DESTROY the caliphate, you people who say this are UNEDUCATED, how could you say this? The caliphite was ALREADY FINISHED, The Sultan had AGREED to the Allies demands, and huge parts of Turkey were going go to be divided. Ataturk SAVED HIS COUNTRY!

    Also ATATURK did not attack Islam but he ATTACKED DOGMAS AND CULTURE THINGS THAT CAME WITH ISLAM, He removed the silly things that many Muslims had adopted that really had nothing to do with Islam..Look at Turkey now, the most democratic, clean, educated, modern, Muslm country…and for those who will say Turks fogot Islam, YOU ARE MISTAKEN, go thre and the Mosques are full!!!

    Right now ISLAM IS IN THE DARK AGES, the Islamic movememts we have now are against SCIENCE, ARTS, BEAUTY, HUMANITY, CO-EXISTANSE, ect….Muslim excelled when we were good and tolerant people, now all muslims do is say I HATE USA I HATE JEWS, KILL THIS, KILL THAT, blah blah blah, put a garbage bag NIKAB over your womean (something not even in Islam) ect…

    Ataturk was a hero, and if you’d like to EDUCATE yourselves about ATATURK & ISLAM then take time and read this..for the uneducated and ignorant who call him a jew and so on, in the end your OPIONION does NOT MATTER, because the facts are HE SAVED TURKEY AFTER THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE WAS SUBDUED BY THE BRITS, and also HE WAS NOT AGAINST ISLAM BUT WAS AGAINST “DOGMAS” bida3 in Islam..Read this to learn more about ATATURK & ISLAM!

    http://www.atam.gov.tr/index.php?Page=DergiIcerik&IcerikNo=540

  180. Mohammad says:

    Dear believers, please cease your attacks on each other, for you are brothers in faith. Both parties have a valid point. Let me try to explain.

    From 17th century onward Islamic civilization began to regress both scientifically and religiously. It became a confusing and contradictory system that made Muslims increasingly weak.

    On scientific side, more and more bans were made on technology, for example calling the invention of typewriter as Satanic and banning it.

    On religious side, more and more practices were contradicting Quran, for example people were praying to individual saints or dead sheikhs, making graves “holy”, using intoxicants in religious ceremonies, superstitious beliefs and so on.

    The Arabs decided to solve the religious problem by purifying Islam and bringing it back to simplicity of Prophet’s time. But in the process they want into extreme, started killing other Muslims ( Turks ) and being severely violent.

    The Turks decided to solve the scientific problem by secularism, in order to remain technologically strong, but in the process they also went into extreme, and severely limited Islamic knowledge.

    Because of this Arab-Turkish disagreement, the whole Islamic civilization collapsed, and to this day is completely disunited and weak.

    The solution is to forgive the mistakes of the ancestors on both sides, to share with each other knowledge, technology and resources, and come to a peaceful and reasonable compromise.

    This is how our Prophet would have done.

    There is great suffering in the world because of this disunity, and I call upon all my Muslim brothers, whether their blood is Turkish, Arab, Kurdish, Iranian, Bosnia, Malayasian or any other, to love and support each other.

    We shall all die one day, and we shall answer to the Almighty God for our deeds, and he will ask us why we did not forgive each other and love each other and support each other.

    Quran clearly condemns fighting and arguing between Muslims and disunity, so please consider it as personal duty, not just social one.

  181. Do Something!! says:

    I agree with the above post by Mohammed, and i think we all would agree something needs to be done to help Islam move forward and become the power it once was. No matter what our differences, Arab or Turk, Sunni or Shia, we should try to help each other and move towards the straight path.

    But i have a question to ask, what exactly can we do? Our leaders have betrayed us, Syria is a police state, Pakistan’s president is a criminal, the Saudi royal family are wahabis..and the word wahabi says it all tbh.

    I think if every Muslim had the guts to say and do something about ourselves in public there would be change.

  182. Hate_Secularists says:

    @ Tareq : if you do not know anything about the Salafis, please stop spewing poison from what you call ur mouth.

    @ Do Something : same goes for you

    the only Muslims right now fighting and giving their lives for the Islamic cause are these salafi’s whom you cheap ass tomb and grave worshippers hate…. (FYI : its usually the saint worshippers who use the “wahabi” label, since they themselves are involved in worshipping people and cannot imagine of someone else worshipping Allah alone)

    the saudi royal family are puppets… agreed. But are they the religious clerics? since when did a Salafi’s become judged by saudi royal puppets??

    dont make stupid statements, it only shows your ignorance

  183. Hate_Secularists says:

    as for on topic discussion : its most unfortunate the arabs didnt help the ottomans, but the religious state of the ottomans had deteriorated anyway, and as long as they didnt repent, they were doomed for destruction.. which they got… i.e. Mustafa Kemal…

    the Arabs who sided with the kafir’s against the ottomans… well they were wrong too, and they got their lesson too … ie betrayal from them

  184. Do Something!! says:

    Yes, i know same goes for me. Inshallah when i am older i will be along with many others stand up against our own corrupt leaders.

    I am a Sunni, and follow the Hanafi school of thought, and i don’t worship saints or graves. Anybody who does i agree is wrong, we worship only Allah alone.

    As for judging each other, we should all look at ourselves first, myself included and change ourselves and follow our deen as we believe is right, ignoring the differences between ourselves. As only Allah knows who is right and who is wrong. If we change ourselves, and practise Islam then Allah shall help us.

    “Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves” – Surah 13 – Al Ra’d THE THUNDER

  185. hus says:

    How can u be sunni and follow the hanafi way of thought? IMO the people who call themselves sunnis,shias,alevis or any other sects are following people who have made up lies. How can u be a sunni,shia or whatever sect? where in the quran does it say ur religion is sunni islam? or shia islam? it only says ISLAM. So how can u be a sunni and follow the hanafi school? there is only 1 islam and its called islam only no sunni or shia islam.

    • A Rahim says:

      @ hus – you think you’re answer is clever? Are you a scholar?
      How will you practise the deen if you’re not following a school of thought? will you become a self made alim?

  186. @ Hus says:

    Okay enlightened one tell us what ISLAM really is. I am also hanafi sunni and read the quran and do my best to follow what the quran says.

    But i agree that there is the 1 true form of Islam that everyone has moved away from. But you talk like you follow the TRUE islam. Tell us then brother what do u do which is different to a sunni or a shia. Most likely, what you do and what you believe in is likely to relate to either a sunni or shia.

  187. hus says:

    Im not saying i follow the true islam or am religious at all. All im saying is god is 1 right? there is only 1 quran right? and the final prophet is the only 1 you should follow or learn of right? imo the sunni,shia hanafi,sufi or whatever are following stuff that happened after the last prophets word eg: ali,hussein,abu bakir etc etc Ive even heard people quoting saladin. But these guys are just normal people so imo u cant say well im a sunni because abu bakir was kaliopha or said so and so or im a shia because Hz ali said so and so because not 1 of these people are prophets right? so therefore if there is a sunni,shia,etc these things are (made up) by people after the prophet and imo not valid because no where in the quran does it mention anything about sunni,shia or whatever or in the hadeeths does it mention any of this stuff. It only came after when tribes,imams,nations,empires etc all decided to say we are sunni,shia etc and imo the reason why people follow this is because there people are from that or there dad is that or there tribe or nation is that paricular sect. So they never ever think for themselves and follow what is already in place. If following ur dad,tribe,nation,imams,leaders or whoever is correct then the christians should be correct and the jews should be correct and the budhists should be correct. Because remember they are also only following there dad,tribe,nation,culture,leaders or whoever. But when a muslim looks at a budhist he thinks how stupid is this kafur who prays to a statue all because hes dad told him this is right or his culture is this way or whatever the reason BUT the muslim wont look at himself and think hmmm but i follow a certain sect all becasue my dad,culture,leaders or whoever told him this is the correct way. But when we look at our relgion it only says islam and nothing else. So somewhere along the lines every1 has added there own little piece and still follow whatever is tought to them without questioning it. If the budhist never looks at his religion and himself he can never think to himself its a bit silly praying to statues but even if he did think it was wrong can he go against his community or speak out against it or change himself? very unlikely maybe 1 in a 100 can. So the same thing is happening in the muslim workd IMO there is all these sects and they seem to me like they have mixed there own cultures,ideology etc into the relgion and renamed it to sunni,shia,alevi,hanfi etc etc (theres like 100+). But imo if u believe in 1 god follow the quran and take advice from whatever the prophet said and done, how can u go wrong? u cant. So in conclution thats my oppionon on the matter bro. But let me give u an example of mixing culture into religion lets say arabs they all have beards, even drug dealers have beards. And a drug dealer with a beard who looks the type as a muslim because of his arab face,beard,clothing etc this is the look of a muslim to most people and he will be respected even though he sells drugs but another muslim lets say a convert who has a suit no beard and a good person will be looked at like hes not a good muslim because he doesnt have that certain look. But in reality that look is just there culture because even a drug dealer looks that way. Do u c my point? Heres a real life example there was a big drug dealing family in australia the Darwiche lebanese family in sydney who got shot dead recently he used to have a beard and look the part of a real arab muslim. The head of the islamic comunity and hojas,sheiks etc all came to his funeral etc and they all said he was such a good man etc etc hes wife is covered head to toe they all look the part but there selling drugs but no1 cares because he looked like a muslim. If it was a guy who got shot who didnt dress/look that type i doubt any1 woudve gone or respected him.

  188. @ Hus says:

    “But imo if u believe in 1 god follow the quran and take advice from whatever the prophet said and done, how can u go wrong? u cant.”

    I agree with your statement there. If only every muslim thought this way.

    The original divide between Sunni and Shia was over who should become leader after the prophet (pbuh) passed away, but as time has gone on this simple divide has marked a huge gap in the islam world, the simple difference have become big religious divides, sects and forming sects out of a sect itself, which is wrong.

    it looks like us muslims have a long road ahead of ourselves. Allah is not going to change our situation unless we change ourselves, as said by do something.

    We don’t have to go out and protest on the street and do something about it, first we must return to teh way of the prophet and settle our differences no matter what sect. Only then will Allah inshallah help us topple our own corrupt leaders who have allowed islam to become so weak.

  189. melis says:

    all im saying is
    most of you here are brainwashed muslim bastards
    its pissing me right off
    how the fuck was he jewish?
    and gay?
    LOL
    yes he changed the laws so there was no hijab etc
    but isnt that good?
    why shouldnt women have freedom?
    all you brainwashed muslim cunts are so obsessed you dont make any sense! men are always more superior, the dominat ones of the family household and why should they be?

    everyone deserves to have the same rights & ataturk saved turkey, changed it o the better.
    instead of all the woman thanking him for saving them they bumlick their muslim husbands thinking theyre gonna end up in heaven.

    since when has the quran said woman need to wear hijab?

    bollocks. im fifteen & i know better than all of you put together

    ataturk was a great leader, one of the best. he was amazing, inspirational and changed lives for the better.
    ne mutlu turkum diyene (:

    • ULKU says:

      Thanks Melis,

      As a proud Turkish lady I would expect you to be harsher to those unbelievers.
      After ww1, there is a saying Allah gave to the Arabs the oil and to Turks ATATURK.

      Arabs are very sad nation, they are not happy that they got the dirty oil.
      Islam did not come to the Turks,but Arabs. At that time bunch of corruption and chaos was amongs to Arabs. They still are looking for a saviour, Turkiye is not your remedy.
      Arabs, all the way, in their history well know with their unrealistic thinking, like in the Arab deserts they see illusion(serap).
      After Osmanli Empire collapsed, all the Arab countries wanted their freedom, upon the influence of 1789 French revolution.
      After ww1, they wanted their freedom from Osmanli Empire, turning their face to Christianity, Lawrance of Arabia is one of them. In the Yemen deserts they killed the Ottoman soldiers, by hiding in the trees and stabbing from the back, that is not a war, that`s a guerilla attack.We still wipe our tears over the lost Osmanli soldiers, who are killed by muslim Yemenies.
      During Iraq war, i can see a man screaming on the TV, begging the water , by saying;Mr.Bush we need water, please.
      A Turk never come in that postion, we rather die by dehyrating, but not the beg who is a basters who invaded my country for no reason, made my holly soils with filty feets. Hey Arabs, we don`t do that, we will never be doing it.
      You know why, we Turks always had glorius history, we have been bleessed by Allah .

      I am coming from a family a family whose history going back to many holly muslims.
      I don`t know Arabic, to understand Kuran. Inspite of coming from a way back moslem family and having lots of knowledge as possible as I could, I only and only understood Quran when I read the one translated to Turkish, now, I am closer to Allah, by knowing his law and orders. With that, each time I pray Ataturk, who has the Quran to be translated to Turkish.
      Ataturk was chosen by Allah, not to see it I call you a kafir. Which means you are against his one of the saviour. He saved our honor and dignity.
      Way up there, someone is barking it is not Ataturk it is the nation. Holly Ataturk with his all modesty way before addressed, by saying; “There are two Mustafa Kemals, one is me, I am mortal, the other one is in you, didn`t a Turkish mother give me a birth, there are many Turkish mothers who will give a birth to many Mustafa Kemals, the wisdom is not belong to me it is belong to Turkish Nation”.

      It is a blessing that we had Ataturk, as well as humanity. So, in order to help your misery I strongly suggest to leave along your misery and read him.
      According to Turkish Linguistics and their very scientific studies, as of today, the Arabic Letters do not fit our language how to read and write and to express ourselves.
      Latin Alphabet fitted. This all is our internal problem, not your concerns at all.
      Since you all who are cursing Ataturk, go ahead and read that part in the Quran;”Do not do distiction amongst to prophets, it is only up to Allah”
      What Arabs are doing not to obey Allah`s order by making Muhammed is the only prophet, there really is great discrimation that they do, they should deal with their own errors.
      The judgement is only belongs to Allah, that you all judgeing Ataturk, who is our leader not even yours. Doing so is that no a shirk or playing God huh?

      This is so serious, I am going to see if there is anyway, for your insult and hatred toward Turks can be a law suit. Perhaps, this kind of hatred should brought up the World`s attention.
      Yes, Ataturk took the western law, in Turkiye. However, the current Turkish law is made according to the Turkish society. That would be so comical for any country who follows the other ones. The laws are made of according to needs of the people, to answer their rules and regulations for the harmony and peace.
      Also, in the Quran there is no such thing to say to kill one another. None of you have that right to take the Allah`s law to kill others. Again, in the Quran;”If you save a human being, I would consider you that you saved the humanity”, again:”Not to kill others”.
      From the Japan Sea to Adriatic Sea all Turks are muslim in the World, however, not every Arab is muslim. It is very thought provoking isn`t it.?
      Arab population in the world is only 250.000.000 people, however, the Turks`s population is more than 300.000.000, and all moslem.
      Iraq did some business with France buying some weapons, during Saddam administration. During the war, France asked that money that Iraq owe, did you guys helped Iraq to pay back that money that Iraq owes.
      Arabs do not have integrity they always had relationship with Christian World, more than ever Ataturk did along Turks.
      It is a great question of mine, you all go ahead and find out how many billions Saudi Arabia lended, or donated to USA. Why, why all other suffering muslim counties waiting a help to come to them, particularly right next to Saudi Arabia, Palestenians are suffering that Saudi brother is not helping.
      from now, on it is your duty in the eye of Allah to read and to know the Turkish history , particularly holly Ataturk and Holly Quran, to find the light.

      In one African moslem and European moslem are not the same in the eye of Allah. There is other sura in the Quran stating that, :I created you with different nations”.
      None of the muslims culture is the same the other one. Their worship too. Allah the Almighy, is so tolerant and merciful with his creations. There is no force is allowed in his law.
      I could see your pain and hatred and jealousy toward Ataurk`s glory and his nation.

      By the way, Ataturk is belong to one of the Turkish tribe, it is called YORUK, his mothers and fathers side.
      If you guys can leave all of your ignorance to read you will see the Mesrutiyet has already started during the Osmanli, going way back to 1700`s. The Rebublic seeds was already planted by Osmanli, naturally Ataturk is one of the Osmanli Soldier.
      You can go ahead and do your namaz and pray to Allah that he will give you such purified and holly leader like Ataturk. Don`t be hopeless, I see that misery and hopelessness in all of you.everything is possible in his Kingdom.
      Violence is not Islam.
      Osmanli Empire never left you in the cold, you wanted to declare your independence and kingdoms with Christians, contrary we made it with Allah`s permission on our own.
      Ataturk never forced his nation to become a republic. That`s the nation. So, why you don`t review how good moslem you are and your nation, and why this attack to Turks.
      I smell that the war declaration is coming to us from Arabs.To hang all of us.
      Perhaps, if we knew these days would be coming we should have wiped away all the hatreds along with Christians, this is not a moslem thinking and not a Islam, so it must be wiped away from the World, to save our dignity and independency.
      I will pray everyday your curses will hit back at you.It is in the Quran too, if anyone hurst you at the same moment we put the similiar wound to them too.
      So my beloved Turkish brother and sisters, we have been protected by Allah and always we will be protected, from any harm.

      My dear and very beloved moslem and non muslim Turkish brothers and sisters.
      They still want to be controlled by us, we refuse the offer business to them. It is not fitting their very down there ugly attack to our holly leader Ataturk and his nation.
      This will never happen!!

      Bir Turk bir Dunya`ya bedeldir=One Turk is enough for one World.
      Turkiye Cumhuriyeti ilelebet payidar kalacaktir.=Republic of Turkiye will stay forever, with its prosperity.
      Ne Mutlu Turkum Diyene
      1932 Gazi Mustafa Kemal Ataturk
      The founder of Modern Turkiye
      And its first president.

  190. LAWL says:

    WTF r u on about?! Since when did someone say that that they should wear hijabs? Unless i completely missed it.

    Yeh they have freedom and should be allowed freedom and it is their choice if they wear a hijab or not. If they choose to follow their husbands instead of Ataturk its their choice. Hijab isn’t an islamic thing, its cultural and was worn by the Arabs before Islam.

    And your the bullshiter. Ataturk was a great leader? My ass! He may have modernised Turkey but he destroyed the Caliphate, the symbol of Islam. If you believe he is right then you clearly are a stupid 15 yr old. Your argument didn’t even know you know more then anyone else, and BRAINWASHED? Your the BRAINWASHED one idiot. I don’t believe the stuff bwt Ataturk bein gay and jewish etc but he wasn’t the hero made out to be. Changed lives for the better? People had more freedom during the Ottoman period then now.

    Turkey is governed by the secularist army…so what happened to the “democratic reforms” which Ataturk was SUPPOSEDLY have meant to implement. Syria is a complete police state, the Saudi govt are sell outs to islam. So he made people lives better? DONT FINK SO!!

  191. THANKS TO THE WORKS OF HARUN YAHYA……;..

  192. Anon says:

    Hats off to Atatürk for destroying Islam and founding Turkey based on secularism. I wish he were alive so he could hang all these extremist Islamist bastards. They’re like an infectuous disease and do no good to Turkey.

  193. Mudassar says:

    009.068
    ”Allah has promised the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women and the unbelievers the fire of hell to abide therein; it is enough for them; and Allah has cursed them and they shall have lasting punishment.”

    066.009
    ”O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed).”

    004.059
    ”O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.”

    004.060
    ”Have you not seen those who assert that they believe in what has been revealed to you and what was revealed before you? They desire to summon one another to the judgment of the Shaitan, though they were commanded to deny him, and the Shaitan desires to lead them astray into a remote error.”

    All of us are brainwashed and indoctrinated in some part of our lives, the difference is kemalist hypocrites have been brainwashed to worship kemal. Whilst we have been brainwashed from the filth of nationalism, disobedience to Allah(swt), from the worship of Mustafa kemal and we have been indoctrinated with love for the Sunnah of Rasul Allah and the love of the book of Allah(swt). The messenger and his companions were called names in their struggle aginst the kemalism of the time (polytheism) so the brothers and sisters who stand firm on Islaam should not be shocked to be called Islamist. The disbelievers called our prophet(saw) disgraceful things, thus if we are receiving the same treatment it indicates we are doing something right.

  194. Mudassar says:

    One final point if I may:

    Great leader is the incorrect title for this man, the correct title is Despised Pig and may he roast in Hell!

  195. Mudassar says:

    Anon when Turkey comes under Islamic rule again, Muslims are not the ones who will be getting hung!

  196. Abdullah says:

    Anon, who do you mean when you say extremist islamist bastards? Someone who wants Islam to return to its glory days, or someone who is going around killing inncoents and killing themselves in the process.

    If you mean the latter, then i agree with you. They’re destroying Islam and giving a bad name to all Muslims. If i was ever to become leader of a united Islamic state spanning from Malaysia to Morroco, I would personally execute Bin Laden and all the wrong doers myself. How can he claim to be fighting a Jihad when he is training suicide bombers. It says clearly in the Quran that suiciders will be thrown straight in to hell.

  197. aslan says:

    My grandfather came from a poor family, but he studied hard. He was a first class student and he went to university in Germany and became a biologist. Although he was poor, beautiful girls from rich families wanted to marry him because he was so intelligent and open minded for his times. He hated islam, and did his best to open the minds of his family and students to its backward teachings. He could write a book on the many contradictions and illogicalities of the Koran. He had the highest respect for Ataturk. Without Ataturk my grandfather would have been a zero.

    Ataturk, my grandfather, and many people of his generation worked hard to wake up the Turkish people. As a Turk I will let you destroy their legacy. The Turks are a martial race: if you Arabs want a Jehad we will give you a Jehad.

  198. Ottoman Turk says:

    Sorry aslan..i just don’t understand what you are sayin by martial race and “jehad.”

    and your completly wrong saying islamic teachings r backwards. Have u done any research? Rashidun Caliph Umar ibn al Khattab invented a much more democratic system then any system in the world, such as the welfare state and womens rights long long before the west began to do this. How can you say islamic teachings are backwards? If you mean by not allowing women to show themselves lyk in the west then no…islam gives women the opportunity to be modest and to cover themselves frm the eyes of other men other then their husbands. Women are treated like toys in western countries, men move from one woman to another, is this womens rights they always talk about?

    Yes, Islamic countries themselves have become backward. They have strayed from islam and the leaders have betrayed us. The teachings and the law have moved further away from Sharia and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammed (PBUH).

    Also, as i am Turk myself Ataturk didnt wake us up. He destroyed us. Turkey has never regained the dominance it had under the Ottoman Caliphate, and never will.

    I pray to Allah for the swift coming of the Mahdi, as us Muslims have strayed and are lost without a true leader.

  199. Pisslam says:

    Turks and moslems in general are all backeward idiots plain and simple. Muhammed was a violent dog shit worthy of piss. Islam is the creation of Satan to cause havoc and disorder in the world. We Europeans are NEVER gonna let Turkey become a member of European Union.

    It would be like letting a pack of wild dogs into a garden of grace. So, you can eat pig shit and stay in your under developed piles of shit countries. You are not welcome into the modern world. Stay in your medieval times, thank you.

  200. Downloadable links says:

    Sorry for double post, but if it wasn’t for backward Europe’s interaction with Islam in Spain and during the crusades, you still would be in your little huts and tents and fightin with each other constantly like the tribes which you westerners come from. You say we are uncivilized? I can’t stop laughin.

    A message which has been stressed before on this site, Muslims should settle their differences between themselves if they wish to stop the opression they are going through. No matter what race you are, Turkish, Arab, Persian, or Pakistani/indian w/e…unite as muslims, because the plan of the kafir is to divide and conquer us…and they are winning the battle.

    Salaamulakyum.

  201. Mehmed says:

    Authaturk wanted to destroy ISLA, but he failed. He did change the language, but slowly Turkish pepole are coming to the Arabic language. He killed so many Muslim and Armanian, at the end he died and is in HELL, burning in fire that he made for himself. So many pepole say that he was a JEW

  202. Human says:

    First of all I am neither a Muslim nor a Turk (nor a Jew in case someone is wondering). In my humble opinion, Attaturk was a far sighted man with a modern outlook. Hence he separated state and religion. While almost all other religions are open to reform and change and have moved with the times, Islam unfortunately doesn’t measure up in that respect. Attaturk tried his best but only time will tell if he was successful. As quite a few of the comments here reflect, what is sad is how Muslims even in the 21st century value their faith more than their fellow human beings. Any idealogy (religious or non-religious) should be open to logic and reasoning. To questioning, introspection, and reform. Reform, change, logic, reasoning and the like have made humans the dominant species on this planet. If cavemen thought they should live their lives today just as yesterday, and not question anything just because some supposed “all-powerfull force” has ordained them to, through some so-called “revelations”, we would still be living in caves today. There has to be reform. There has to be logical questioning. To all those brainless religious bigots out there, heaven and hell are here itself; “God” and “Devil” are inside every human being. Which brings to mind what the great Albert Einsten once said, “A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.”

  203. Usman Najam says:

    Salam Alakum Wa Remutallah

    In all honesty i agree with one of the early comments, turky was once a devout islamic state, where people did’nt drink, gamble, fornicate (outside of marriage) and they were pure people who prayed 5 times a day.

    I despise ataturk sorry to say to all you who are brainwashed to follow his foul rotting example.
    He abolished the caliphate, banished the sultanate in turn for nation-wide secularism, upon my recent vsiit to turky was appaled to find that viagra and alchohol was availiable with extreme ease and pork was something which even though was hard to find was still in some hotels and resturants. Women walking around at day and night half-naked, unaccompinied. This surly violates our islamic values? You should all see Ataturk for who he is a western backed creature that dismantled the caliphate and now has the Turky on par with a foolish kaffir nation..

    Allah was Decide his Fate

  204. Salah says:

    Human…i understand where your coming from.. but i don’t agree with your comments. Yes towards the end of the Caliphate, Islam was truly lagging behind behind the west, due to inner strife between the sects and mainly the rivalry created with Arab and Turkish nationalism.

    But destroying the Caliphate has not modernised Islam at all. Look at the rulers who have replaced the caliphate system. I truly believe every so called “muslim” leader of every single muslim country out there is corrupt. The biggest corrupt leader is Pakistani president Asif Ali Zardari. He has been in jail, had corruption charges and has a criminal record in Switzerland. Another example is the Wahabi Royal Family of Saudi Arabia, who continue to trade oil with the west, just to protect the throne.

    Human..the caliph was a symbol of Islamic Unity, and destroying the caliphate system in a way took away the soul of islam. Muslims have forgotten the very basics of Islam and because of this they have suffered, because of Ataturk they have suffered and straying from Islam has made us suffer.

    Islam has always been open to change and logic. Umar Ibn Al Khattab was the first person to introduce the Welfare State in the world. The Caliphate gave rights to women no country had ever seen before. What has occured in the last century and what you see on the news today is an anti-islamic and an extremist view of islam, such as Wahabism and the Taleban. Women SHOULD be allowed to educate themselves and do many things men do..which happened under the caliphate. Obviously now…things have changed. I hope that you..Human also understand my point of view like i have understood yours.

  205. Ethesta says:

    the caliph was a symbol of Islamic Unity, and destroying the caliphate system in a way took away the soul of islam.
    Hehe… Where were you when we were fighting against those Britts, French, Italians and Greeks even caliph called for Jihad?
    Of course together with your owners against us. Look to Philistine now. What a beauty, peace & prosperity… First thing they have done was selling their lands to Jews when they became “independent”.
    Look to the World-What you see? All the places with fundamentalist Islam are the most underdeveloped and poor places. Christians and Jews are joking with those places… Even I do. What is wrong? How people believing to a religion with a book starting with “Read” became so weak and so primitive . Of course with wrong interpretation.
    Ataturk tried to change all of this. And he succeeded somehow. After 2nd WW Turkey was one of the most prosperous and industrialized country in Europe. Turkish people never saw such devastations again after 1st WW and lived independently and prosperously since.
    Therefore Westerners always paid a lot of importance regarding Ataturk-how to isolate his thoughts, how to weaken his revolutions, how to stop his ideas to spread.
    Without Ataturk there would be no more Muslims in Anatolia. All of them would be departed, killed or forced to convert. Therefore he was one of the biggest hero of Islam. He protected religion of Muslims.
    Before revolution we were reading Quran in Arabic-actually only 5-10% of Turkish people can speak Arabic-so it was non-sense. It is like an Arab to read Quran in German? Now at least we can read in Turkish-before it was forbidden to read Quran in Turkish.
    Before revolution we had no industry in Turkey-even pins were imported from Europe. In 1940`s however Turkey was exporting heavy industrialized goods to Europe.
    Do not expect Ottoman Empire to be re-formed. Period of Empires is already expired. There is no British Empire-French Empire or Spanish Empire anymore. It is not the weakness of Turkey just time has changed.
    People see what they think. If you think about viagra and alcohol yes you can find them in Turkey. If you think about wisdom, democracy, prosperity and true Islam -you can find them too-more than any other Muslim country (or country with mostly Muslim citizens-a country cannot be Muslim-how a country can pray 5 times a day or fast as an organization? ) .
    Don`t be afraid from God-love him and the way ti Him. Main difference b/w Turkish and Arabic approach to Islam.

  206. Salah says:

    Ethesta..did you even understand what my post was about? I don’t understand what you find funny about the caliph being the symbol of islamic unity. The fact is it was.

    Where was i when you were fighting..i wasn’t born then and im sure u weren’t either, so you have nothing to brag about something your grandfather or great grandfather may have done. As i have many Turkish friends, and have been to places with the Great Sheikh Nazim (Turkish/Cyproit origin) many turks say their people while fighting the brits, fought not for the land of Anatolia, but for the presevation of the Ottoman Caliph. Of course, those who were swayed under Mustafa Kemal’s ideas weren’t, im not denying that.

    Saying that true islam exists…haha..i do laugh at your stupidity. True Islam? Where? Saudi? No. Saudi Wahabism is an extremist view of Islam..and one which Osama Bin Laden follows. Which other islamic country follows true islam? Syria? No, its a police state. Libya? No. Pakistan? No. None of these are true Islamic countries. You are truly blind Ethesta. I hope God guides you the right path.

  207. ISLAM DESERVES TO BE DESTROYED!!!

    It is a bigoted sexist insecure retread of christianity and judaism. It definately isn’t Turkish. It is an alien religionthat came from a harsh land of primitive tribesmen unworthy of civilized modern folk. ALL TUKISH PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE A RIGHT NOT TO HAVE THIS PERNICIOUS RELIGION FORCED UPON THEM!!!
    Secular societies aren’t perfect but they are a lot better than the type of society they have in Saudi Arabia!

    TURKEY SHOULD BE SECULAR!!!

  208. Abdullah says:

    You got no basis to your argument asshole. Islam advanced Science so much that contact with Islam during the Crusades helped Europe come out of the Dark Age.

    Islam isn’t fukin sexist dick head. What you see in Saudi Arabia is the Wahabi version of Sharia Law. Islam allows women to be modest and cover themselves, not walk around half naked and be treated like shit…shagged left right and centre. Is that your free societ aasshole?

    And no1s saying for Islam to be forced upon Turkey u can stick with ur beliefs if u wish, but most Turks, especially in the Eastern side of the country such as Adana, don’t agree with the secular regime. I know this as i have been there myself. They still consider themselves Ottoman Turks, not puppets to the secular regime.

    I myself am an Uzbek, and let me ask you Jamshed, where were your ancestors from, before the time of the Ottomans and even the Seljuks? You were people off the Steppes also tribesmen, i am not aiming this at all Turks but you Jamshed you and your ancestors were also Tribesmen, and without the interaction with the Arabs and Islam you were nothing. Dick hed.

    • hb says:

      Very interesting debate, Martin Luther believed that the only way to defeat the Muslims was through secularism. Does anyone think that it may be starting to backfire

  209. Abdullah says:

    I think Martin Luther is right, it is and already has destroyed us. But what makes you think it may be starting to backfire?

  210. izzac says:

    To: Ottoman Turk: If Allah did not send Mustafa to Turk’s, your mothers and sisters would have fucked up by the arse by the English, French, Italians, ANZACS and Greeks. Turkey has never regained the dominance, because we did not follow the foot steps of Mustafa kemal Ataturk. Anani sikeyim gotveren.

  211. Christopher says:

    I am a Christian and find this debate very interesting. I have researched Islam thoroughly and have many Muslim friends. I have been to Turkey many many times and have seen the difference in the way people live. As someone posted before, eastern Turkey, cities such as Adana are clearly not following the steps of Ataturk. The people there are just, so friendly and so into Islam and they love the religion. But western Turkey is the complete opposite, such as Istanbul where western culture has really kicked in, which is where i believe Ottoman Turk is right.

    The Turks should be proud of what they have achieved in the past, and not be proud of what many believe they have become.

    Muslims, just like Christians have strayed from their religion which is why i believe it is God’s punishment to the Muslims especially is the destruction of the Caliph. Maybe IZZAC, God did send him down to ease the pain for the people of the region. But i do believe what he did do was rob Islam of its own identity, and Muslims are still struggling to come to terms with this.

  212. izzac says:

    To mehemd: You are carrying the derivtave name of our beloved Prophet Muhammed (PHUH). How can say anything like that to The Great Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. How do you know he is in hell, how do you know that he killed Armenians and Muslim. he was a Mulim him self and saved millions of Turks getiing slaughtered by the West during WWI. Are you Allah to judge people gotveren. He cahnged the language because Turks are not Arabs and are Turkic speaking tribe who have history over 7,000 years old. Turk ‘s never spoke, but only adopted some parts of Arabic duirng the times of Ottoman. Ataturk only restored the Turkish Language. The Latin is not Western, but derived from an old Turkic Language. Get your facts correct umcik agizli.

  213. izzac says:

    To Mehmed again. The population of Armenians were nearly 300,000 and only killed thru thamine and disease. You are not a Turk or corrupt one.

    In province of Sincan (Eastern Turkistan) over 35 Million Muslim Turks were killed by the Chinese Communist Army or the 100 Million North American Indian’s. This is what I call massacre you moran.

  214. izzac says:

    To Christoper: The Halife was never destroyed or abolished, it was made in-active and transferred to Turkish National Gramd Assmebly. It can be made active at anytime. The Muslims are struggling because we are corrupt to max. All the Muslim Leaders in the 21st Century are either Freemasons or puupets of the Jew and that is why Islam is in dissarray. Mustafa Kemak Ataturk was the first ever Muslim Leader to expel Freemasons out of Turkey after WWI, first Muslim Leader to protect the Grave of Prophet Muhammed’s Grave ffrom the Barbaric Arab King in Saudi Arabia:
    http://www.englishbaby.com/blog/onurerdem/view_entry/33361

    For argument say; If Halife was destroyed why don’t your Muslim mates create one then? They seem very devoted and know everthing. You people talk rubbish abd crap.

  215. izzac says:

    Mudassar and Mustafa Kemal Ataturk hater, go fuck your mothers and sisters not up their pussy, but their virgin arses.

  216. hb says:

    To Abdullah, what i mean is that Secularism is a great and very prosperous former of government, but Western Christians are not progressing in this system. I saw a video recently on the decreasing population of the West. It’s a system that is not based on faith but even worse it mocks faith. People who are faithful are not accepted within popular culture. It’s a society which holds its citizens captives as slaves through media manipulation and an ideal which subjugates it’s citizens as slaves through capitalists goals. By that i simply mean buying far more than what you need in order to compete with you peers. Now I see Muslim and other groups as the only sect of people who can keep their identity and still succeed with moderate ambitions in a Capitalist western nation. Christians are actually falling due to their own lack of faith. i’m not saying all Christians but nominal Christians who walk away from their faith and turn to Western ideals which leave them empty and misguided. I want to add that I’m moved to America when i was four years old, but I am Afghan and we have been brought negatively in this debate fro obvious reasons, but what has happened in our country is not the true face of Islam, we have been used and abused by the powers to be, due to our pride. I can go on but I will merely wait for someone to ask me to. Also to all the Turks in this forum, the Caliphate collapsing was not your fault, we as a whole are to blame. And your right the people of the Arabian peninsula did you guys wrong, they did a similar thing to our country recently. I love this forum, we all have a voice to shape the future of Islam, so lets use it.
    Bismillah

  217. hb says:

    By the way the caliphate has moved from place to place. when one place becomes stagnant and another comes to life. It is improper to think that caliphate would have remained in Turkey if Ataturk didn’t destroy it(which he didn’t, we all did collectively).

  218. Kim misiri says:

    Mustafa attaturk was the greattest Turk who has ever lived.

  219. Salah says:

    izzac, the caliph can not be established again until the time of the Mahdi (who by the way is not the Anti-Christ, and will fight against him).

    And, why are you so angry? Because so many people are critisisin Ataturk? Is Ataturk a prophet? Is he really so great that question anothers piety? If someone critisised the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) would you be angry as you are showing now?

    And why critisise Christopher and his friends? His friends seem devoted and know many things as do i, but we can’t just create a caliphate. WHY DONT U? U SEEM TO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT ATATURK?

    But i do agree with u on the masonic agenda, yes every muslim leader right now is corrupt, whether they are freemason or not. In a climate like this, anyone who would dare stand up and try and declare himself caliph would be assassinated. Only the Mahdi will be able to do this.

    As for you calling other peoples mothers and sisters..what really is the point? Is Ataturk really so close to u? All they did was critisise him, but you call their mothers and sisters? You claim you are Muslim, just remember Allah is watching you. As a Muslim you should be patient and respond in a mannered way which is what i am doing. If i wanted to, i could have ripped you apart and call your mum, sister, dad, brothers.

    My brothers and sisters, even though we are looking at the bigger picture in terms of the caliph, it is little things like patience and the way we live our lives which is why Muslims are suffering and Allah is not helping us. Remember, Allah says in the Quran he does not change a condition of a people until they change themselves. We have become completely distant from the right path, and we are being punished.

  220. Ethesta says:

    Dear Salah, in my reply I was not referring to you personally, of course. I did not expect you to jump to a time machine and support us during our Independence War nearly 90 years ago. I was referring to Arabic nations-the ones who became allies with Brits to kill their brothers and sisters. As the same is continuing right now.
    Why do you believe so much into caliph? I will never understand. It was totally political position -with very limited connection to Islam. Islam and Quran have only been used to justify political decisions and instructions. It was used by the Sultan and through Sultan by foreign powers-especially Brits. What can you expect from such a person?
    Yes people fought for different ideals during our Independence War. But as Ataturk sad before “If fatherland is the subject than the rest is just details”. We -as Turks- sacrificed a lot during those years and became one. With the leadership of Mustafa Kemal and grant of Allah we prevailed.

  221. ıgwe chukwu ka nmadu says:

    my maıl ıs for all. u see ıam not a turk and wıll never be one, but ı tell u bro Kemal Atatuk remaıns the best that ever happened to thıs wonderful country Turkey. ıf not for thıs God sent man hhhhmmmm my bro thıs place would be the heal on earth. yes we wıll not be talkıng of afghan no rather turkey as heal on earth. Atartuk stıll remaın the man. a brave soldıer , the man who saw tomorrow, a warrıor , a grand father , a founder , a leader of all natıons, ınfact ı have not seen a leader lıke attatuk b4 ın my lıfe.
    how ı wısh afrıca as a whole could have one person lıke hım, just one we shall be free. yes ıts saıd a prophet ıs not recorgnısed ın hıs own country, Turkey u dont know what u have sımple. Ok ıf u dont lıke atartuk send hım to me ın afrıca ı wıl take hım as a father and the father of afrıca. Yusuf Ali Abdullah you claım to know God sımply becoause u are a muslım, ıam very sorry for you even ın thıs 4 generatıon today u have not changed( where a we goıng) Turkey ıs bad rıght ok why ıs ıt that ur so called arab natıons come to turkey atartuk natıon on hollıday? yea they come to see the naked turkısh gırls as ıt ıs prohıbıted ın theır own arab natıon, ıs ıt not sımply because they a not free ın theır own natıon.

    let us tell ourselves the trueth ıslamıs a good relıgıon but the people practısıng ıt are two face people as the turks call them ( ıkı yuzlı adam) they pretend a lot you lıke or love somethıng go streıght to that thıng rather u pretendıng ıs that lıfe and how long wıll ıt last. yes u dont drınk but u smoke more than chımney ıs smokıng not haram? but u muslıms do all thıs even ın ur own house. some of u fuck mothers because of stavetıon of sex even some fuck sısıters and donkeys for the same course. ıf ı wrıte here today day wıl come and nıght wıl come too ınfact wıth out end.

    ıam not sayıng ıam the best no way my bro no body ıs best.

  222. Ethesta says:

    One thing I did not understand is some people at this forum thinks that we -Turks-at least some of them- are worshiping to Ataturk. Can`t you separate such a simple thing in your mind. Believing in God and following the ideals of your hero are different things. Yes, Ataturk is our hero. He did great things for Turkish people by sacrificing his own life. None of his words or acts can be interpreted as he was acting like a prophet. He was a wise, disciplined, sacrificing person with perfect tactical and strategical decisions. Why do I like him? Since he changed the fate of Turkish people. Look to Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan none of them could create his own hero during their struggle. Even Bosnia Herzegovina would not survive if NATO did not involved into the conflict. What I am trying to say is: Not each country/nation can create its own hero during struggles-instead some of them became chaotic -as Iraq. They are doomed by the Christians-as Turkey was going to be. And with God`s help and Ataturk`s leadership we stopped that invasion and throw them to the Sea. So, Ataturk was the Grace of God to Turkey -at least I think so…

  223. hb says:

    Ethesta, I’m having indifferent feelings toward Ataturk. Wikipedia states that he is one of the most notable Freemasons. He was a member of a global secret society and if that’s true than he was in cahoots with those who plotted the outcome of not only Turkey’s fate but the fate of the whole world. He did a lot for improving the status of Turkey as a Western nation, but was far from being a hero sent from God. Secret meetings are condemned, but while they planned they knew little that Allah is the greatest planner of them all. These secret societies are pushing their luck. Most people are now aware of them and we all know that they are the Zionists. Even the Jews are tired of this bullshit. At least the ones in America. But anyways as Harun Yahya stated, oppression brings people together. Here in the US a remarkable event is taking place, and it is growing. Muslim solidarity, yes Muslims from all over are hanging with one another. Joking, talking politics, smoking Huka and standing up for one another. Palestinians, Pakis, Egyptians, Algerians, Senegalese, Nigerians, Iraqis, Afghans and reverts are getting along. Not just because they are in a free society, but because they feel oppressed. And we look like normal citizens. So Ethesta, none of those countries you mentioned had a single hero. You’re right, but being Afghan I can only speak for us when I say that we didn’t have one hero, we had a country full of heroes. We fought and destroyed the Soviets, and we may end up being the reason why the Muslim world is freed from the oppressive Westerners.
    Also you claim that the West is Christian. Why?
    In America most people walk away from Christianity, why? Because American Christianity is Zionism, they are losing their Grace because of their unquestioned support for a state that even American Jews say should not belong. Christian Demographics are dwindling. They do not reproduce, that is strong sign of a faltering and sputtering society. It is as if they built their house out of a spider’s web brother.

    P.S. Who shot JFK?

    P.S., Ethesta, you’re Turkish right? And if so can you tell me who Harun Yahya is?

  224. Salah says:

    Ethesta, the reason i really support the caliph (as stated many times above) is because it was what united most of the Islamic states, and at the beggining all the Islamic lands.

    It was a symbol of unity, and the 1 caliphate state united all Muslims, whether turk or arab or any other. What has happened to muslim lands since the abolition of the caliphate? The lands have been divided many times, wars between Iraq and Iran, the creation of Israel, creating a rift between Muslims and Jews which was never before there at the time of the Ottomans and before them.

    Look how Iraq and Afghanistan have been invaded and no muslim country has the power or will to do anything. If it were a one islamic caliphate state, peoples from all over the state would come and fight. It is Islam what unites us all, and the office of the Caliphate was a symbol of this, but the Nationalism indoctrinated by the west has of course destroyed us. It is because of the Nationalism indoctrinated that the Arabs fought for Western powers and many of the Turks also changed.

    The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) stated that we should cling to his family and the line of the caliphate and the tribe of the quraish as long as possible, because without them we will be lost, even when there will be so many more of us. Althought many people disagree, Osman (founder of the Ottomans) was actually 102nd in line to the Prophet and although Turk could find his roots back to the tribe of the quraish.

    Regarding the Freemasons, it is widely known now that they are the former Knights Templar. They are the people who are in control of the world and are vying for the New World Order. People say its just conspiracy theories, but its not. Watch “THE ARRIVALS” to find out for yourselves. Today, we are all living in a system that is preparing for Dajjal. The only way to fight this is to return to our Islamic roots. The one who will be leading the muslims to fight against dajjal when he appears will be the Mahdi, who will unite the ummah once more and he will be caliph, as said by the Prophet himself, which is why i also believe in the Caliph system so much.

  225. hb says:

    Salah, I agree with you on most of your aguments, but i have to disagree on a few. I don’t believe the Knights Templar are winning. Mainly because they are losing their own followers. Also I am against those who believe they know when the end of the world is. Why, you may ask. Because it is stated in the Quaran and not the Hadith, that not even the Angels know when the trumpet will be blown. I’m optimistic about our future and the futurre of the world. I feel a real Islamic revolution happening, here in the states. They will never be able to put out the light of Allah. Also i disagree with the leader of Islam being from the bloodline of the prophet. That breeds racism, that is a similar philosophy that the Jews live by.
    Abdullah i’m waiting for your response brother. Let’s stop picking on the Turks and unite as a people, but let’s not suppress our people and let’s talk about it.
    Salam

  226. ali says:

    Most comments are really biased and without any research, many people blame Ataturk for secularising Turkey, but why these people don’t blame Ulemas and clergy as where were they when Turkey turned into Chaos? they were in power, why couldn’t they deliver?

    You people blame Ataturk, what would have happened to Turkey if he not existed? why you people can’t see things and vision he gave to a complete destroyed nation? He was the man with God gifted abilities and charisma, He destroyed Khalifat because Khalifat was at its end, Khalifa misled his nation, he looted and destroyed his nation. 400 years Turks ruled over half of muslim world, Do you people see any monument, anything that reflects Turk presence in Arab lands?? nothing, none. Khilfat was just a religious title, Sultans were doing what they supposed to do. It was Imperial form of Governance where King is known as Khalifa.

  227. commentor says:

    Guys, looking at Turkey today, I’m unable to see Turkey is an Islamic country but rather an oppressor against Islam.

    Hence, why bother talking about establishing the Khilafah in Turkey? Even if the Khilafah is establish in Turkey, should the Muslim believe and join them? Do you believe Islam in these hands?

    Open your eyes! This country already ruined, and since the day the British Foreign Minister publicly declared “…The situation now is that Turkey is dead and will never rise again…”. Dont waste your time, Turkey is no difference than the United States of America!

    • Cuneyt Isik says:

      YOU LITTLE RAT, WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT TURKEY, AND ARE’NT YOU MAN ENOUGH TO PUBLISH YOUR NAME, I TIHNK YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A CURRY SMELLING CHICKEN FROM ASIA…WHAT THE HELL IS THE PROBLME WITH YOU PEOPLE, YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT TURKEY OR IT’S REALITY, AND SITTING DOWN HERE AND WRITING BULLSHIT, BECAUSE OF TECHNOLOGY ALLOWS YOU TO DO SO….AND YOU DUDE, YOU LOOSER WHO THE HELL ARE YOU, TELL YOUR ID , DONT BE A CHICKEN BE A MAN, OR I SHOULD CALL YOU AS A DOG WHO BARKS WITH NO id TAG ON HIS COLLAR….

    • Cuneyt Isik says:

      YOU ARE A F….ING RAT….

  228. Salah says:

    Thanks for agreeing with me hb. I didn’t mean i think the Freemasons/Zionists are winning, they will obviously lose. As Allah has stated himself, they plan, but Allah is the best of planners. But what i was trying to say is that their plan suceeds to the extent where muslims also sway towards their ideas.

    Ali, i understand where you are coming from. Okay, lets forget the title of the Caliph for a moment? With our without a Caliphate, wouldn’t all muslims like to see a one muslim state, spanning from Morroco in the west all the way to Indonesia in the east? I definatly would. A system like that, with so many different cultures and races, under the Sharia Law (the original sharia law, not the one imposed in Saudi Arabia). Wouldn’t we all like to unite under the banner of Islam, rather then nationality? Look at how Nationalism destroyed the relationship between the Turks and Arabs. It is Islam which unites the Ummah.

    A one united islamic state, its leader nominated by the people? Wouldn’t any muslim here want that?

  229. hb says:

    Thanks Brother Salah. Couple of questions for you.
    Where you from and are you on facebook?

  230. Salah says:

    Im from the UK, but im half pakistani half arab, what about you? And i don’t have facebook, don’t like to show myself on those sites, lol.

  231. Cuneyt Isik says:

    Listen Mohamed. As far as I read your blog and the things you said about the GREATEST LEADER OF ALL TIME are not true, in fact there are lies and misinformation provided by you. You are not the first and I am sure not to be the last one who says wrong things, misleading informations about the GREATEST LEADER of ALL time , the man himself MUSTAFA KEMAL ATATURK. You are nothing but collector of some internet information and put them together and publish so called blog of yours. If you really want to say something, you should do some work on it, rather than copying and pasting the information you find on the net. You are one of those people who creates problems by not educating themselves, yet writing about the most important aspects of the history. Islam does not your need promotions , by talking the most important leader of ALL TIMES. If ATATURK really wanted to DESTROY Islam, you better believe it even today HE COULD HAVE DONE IT SO…I do not know who you are, real or fake, and I am kinda suspected that you use Prophets MOHAMMED’s nameas a nick name. You better change your name or nick name whatever you use, and stop insulting the values of a great TURKISH Nation. The best for you go EDUCATE yourself, I pitty you and people like you.

  232. Ethesta says:

    Dear Salah and hb and commentor, wov,
    You can not connect the abolishment of Kaliphat to Iraq-Iran war. There is nearly 80 years in between. Meantime, a second WW happened and nearly 65 million people murdered around the World in a single 5 years period. A Korean War happened. A Vietnam War happened. Europe start to integrate. Elvis Presley and Marlyn Monroe born and died. It is like saying my grandmother`s grandma`s father was a farmer therefore I became a rocket scientist.? No connection, man.
    What divide Arab World is Petroleum. The one that Arabs like more than Allah(By the way, I thank Allah that there is no petroleum found in Turkey) They are spending incredible, man. They became capitalists more than USA. All that luxury and laze will be asked by Allah. With all this power Arabs are the most weakest now. How did they achieved that? No idea…
    Turkey is the best place if you intend to practice Islam. Of course, I am talking about everybody-not excluding women. If you intend to role as a Muslim than go to Arabic countries. I saw that places. Lived there for more than a year.
    Even in Istanbul -most probably in Europe too- you can not find so easily a prostitute. They are everywhere in the service of petroleum rich Arabs. You got to dig in, and investigate -at least- to find the places in Istanbul-not saying Turkey-if you try it outside Istanbul you may most probably be murdered-don`t try it outside Turkey. It is not an Arab country…
    I am not saying all the Arabs are so. Most of them are naive. I got lot of friends there. But let me say something: Arabs should come to themselves. With petroleum they cannot live forever. They should say goodbye to all those bitches coming all around the World. They should assist Muslim countries-not trying to build the World`s longest building-what a shame. Even USA assist Muslim World more than Saudis. They must come themselves and giving up being puppets of Christian World. All over the Gulf-except Iranian air space- Britt and US planes are flying. Are Arabs friend or foe of Iranians-or lets say Muslims? They should ask themselves…
    Arabs should not waste their resources so gently. You may know or may be you were brainwashed by the eduction system of britts or Americans but we Turks tried a lot to defend Muslim World. Please respect that. We will do that till the last drop of our blood. A little help may be appreciated. As a latest example, when Americans wanted to invade Iraq from North Turkey did not allowed them. Not a single US soldier crossed the border to Iraq from Turkey. All the fault is on Saudi Arabia. Allah may forgive them…
    But do not criticize us what we did with our last reserves at our independence war.
    How can you dare to question our struggles. Never do that without knowing what we sacrificed. Or, Allah may punish you. We lost whole generations while fighting against Britts, Greeks, Russians, French, Italians, and sadly Arabs. And we prevailed with the help of Allah. Otherwise there was no solution. Thank God. And thank Ataturk (please do not consider this as putting an annotation to Allah-what a day I got to explain myself to those stupid mis-believers…)
    Arabs are the puppets of Christian World. By the way I also respect to Christians. They love God and work very hard for Him. Do Arabs work very hard? I never saw an Arab work so hard in the name of God -or even humanity. Arabs should come to themselves.
    Without Arabs we cannot win this game. We need them as Turks. If you in, tell us. If you are not then turn your asses and pray to your God for 25 times a day. But you should know the One that you are praying is not “Allah”. Work hard man. Work harder…
    Not for the money, but for the achievement. Never work for money. I believe working for survival is not a subject for an Arab? Heh… Others are trying harder. You should know that…
    Tell me your suggestions. But not under the influence of foreign powers. Please be wise… You must be…

  233. Ethesta says:

    Without living with the same shoes of other people it is not possible to understand them. And Arabs do that…
    You cannot know what a Chinese girl is experiencing there with all that poverty. You cannot feel what a boy from Bosnia Herzegovina may feel when his mother is raped hundred times in before his eyes. You cannot understand when a suicide bomber explodes at Chechnya. Arabs were all kept as illiterate by intention. The ones I mentioned were all desperate. Without a help, No assistance from Arabic World. Arabs let the World to be so cruel against Muslims, without feeling it. By the way, they were spending to US cars. To the biggest, to the strongest US cars-what a capitalism. How much they pray to Allah it will not be considered. At least I hope so…
    Please do not turn your asses and pray God for 25 times a day. It is not “Allah”… Try harder at least. Come to yourselves… Shake up and open your eyes….

  234. Ethesta says:

    I hope my postings not to be censored. I am not approving suicidal commandos, by the way. I hope my postings are okay with US Government. No offensive to be taken. hehe…. I`m not an anti-Zionist…

  235. haldun says:

    stop judging others no one has the right to judge but allah so maybe before you judge anyone especially mustafa kemal pasha (ATATURK) maybe you should critasize yourself and ask what kind of muslim you are when your speaking of others like that. Ataturk was a great leader of turkey no one else in his or our life time could have done what he did for our muslim country.

  236. commentor says:

    These guys must be crazy for asking Muslim to respect a troubled alcoholic person as a great hero, and worst, person who forcing the Muslims of Turkey to give up their Islamic faith and adopt western style of living and thoughts. Maybe they even proud to see the so-called secular republic has very close ties with the zionist Israel, and makes many trade, military, and political relations. What a waste….

    • haldun says:

      so my friend your saying ataturk has forced turkish muslims. Thats were your wrong ataturk gave freedom just like Hz muhammed (sav) gave freedom from Allah you also have adopted the western style many countrys respect and also benefitted its not the way you dress that makes you a muslim It’s the heart and the nolage that makes you a muslim ALLAH does not love the pretenders.

      • commentor says:

        Its kind of funny when you’re preaching about Islam and misleading others on the concept of freedom.. and WORST, you equalize the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) with Ataturk… If only you believe what has just come out of your own mouths!!!

  237. Salah says:

    Ethesta, i have never said anything criticising the Turkish people. In fact, i have criticised the Arabs more for selling out. But who i don’t like is Ataturk. Yes, before we criticise someone we should look at ourselves, i understand that..but just like commentor, i just don’t understand how you can look up to Ataturk like a hero. Was he not proud to be part of a Muslim nation? Why change the style of living, why change the calendar of the hijrah to the gregorian calendar? Why? Ask yourself. If we all want to look up to someone as a hero and a defender of islam, why not Nur-ad-Din or Saladin?

    Ethesta i do agree with you that Arabs should look at themselves and try to change, i think we all should no matter what nation we are from. I also agree with you that the Saudi’s are the biggest sell outs to the Muslims. Dealing with the Americans, then criticising Iran for destabilising the middle east? Its obvious that the Saudi royal family are free masonic puppets and have no interest in helping other muslim countries. Destabilising the middle east? Im sure Israel destabilised by its illegal creation. Im not Anti-Semetic, but i am Anti-Zionist, and there are many orthodox jews out there who also believe that the state should not have been created.

  238. Salah says:

    Also, one more thing. You can’t say Arabs are puppets to the Christian world. I live in a “Christian” country, where the state religion is Christianity. But i tell u now, by name they are Christian but most of them, and in national surveys of the UK we see, that none of these “Christians” actually believe in a God or Jesus anymore. The Arab states are puppets to the Freemasonic/Dajjal regime, the people really in power in the US, forget Barack Obama, he is just a puppet too.

    Everyone look around at the world we are living in today…do you not agree that the system of the Dajjal is being put in place? Open your eyes brothers and sisters.

  239. Amaan says:

    fear allah fear islam and nothing wrong shall happen to u or ur puny arrogant society if the caliph were there The genocide in GAZA would never have happened,IRAQ would not have been destroyed,LEBENON would not have been divided,MASJID AL-AQSA would still be reachable for muslims in INDI,BABRI MOSQUE would still be functional,MUSLIMS WOULD STILL HAVE BEEN HAPPY so FUCK ATATURK AND HIS FUCKING REFORMS…

    • hb says:

      Salaah, I’m from Afghanistan, but i lived almost all of my life in the U.S., Ethesta, Salaah I will make a comment in regards to Amaan’s prior comment and i want you two to give feedback because I believe what he said is the problem with Islam. Amaan you pointed out some areas that are under attack from foreign invaders and I know you meant no harm but you insulted me. I’m am no enemy to the Turks, I believe Ataturk was a puppet and the Saudis are the worst Muslim government in the World. But you and everyone else in this room failed to realize that the situation of Muslims in Afghanistan and now China are just as bad if not worse. And you failed to mention thah, why????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
      Damn it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Shelke says:

        A puppet? Don’t be silly. If Atatürk were really a puppet, he’d have complied with all the demands of the British and the French, and surrendered Istanbul and Western Anatolia to Greeks (who would then probably convert all mosques in the region to churches). Atatürk knew what he was doing. He’d seen for himself that islam was an anathema against all scientific progress and everything that makes up human dignity; liberty, equality, and the right of inquiry. Islam stops all progress with its dogma and requirements for prayer. He knew he had to destroy islam if the Turkish people were to prosper, which is exactly what he tried to do.

  240. commentor says:

    To all true believer (not the Kemalist, Secularist and Atheist), below are some initial ideas to unite Muslim all over the world:

    1. If we want to unite and prepare Muslim for the last age and the arrival of Dajjal, we should focus on location where the Imam Mahdi will appear. Don’t choose to be blind by looking at nations by their history, wealth or military strength. These are not the truth, but “The truth is from your Lord”. Hence, choose by the standard of Al-Quran & Hadith and choose to live in the present, not the past.

    2. Muslim must then commence works to build Islamic lifestyle upon faith, and not upon wealth, economy, terrorism, military, technology, Islamic buildings or Islamic title etc. These are irrelevant and secondary, not its primary cause. Can we remember how our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) rejected the offer to be a leader from the Kufr? Can we remember how it takes 13 years for the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to strengthen the faith of the companions? Take Kabbah as our example, lasting for thousand of years and still works to cleanse the Muslim’s hearts! It is the practice that builds upon faith! Hence and if we build our lifestyle upon faith, millions will starts to see the beauty in Islam and Islam will become stronger and last for hundred of years. Otherwise, Islam will have no spirit and like what is happening in Turkey. That’s the reason why the British Foreign Minister publicly declared “…The situation now is that Turkey is dead and will never rise again, because we have destroyed it’s moral strength, the Khilafah and Islam…” i.e. by the instrument of secularism, technology, modernization and creation of godless world or internal atheistism. These are not only true for the Islam, but also to other religions. It is the works of the Lucifer (Iblees) to create a godless world. Now can you imagine what happen to the society if everybody in Christendom actually practiced the teachings of Jesus? What if everybody in the Buddhist world actually practiced the teachings of Siddharta Gautama? …and everybody in Hindustan practiced the teachings of Krishna & the Sages? …and everybody in the Sikh world practiced the teachings of the Guru Nanak Sahib? …and everybody in the Taoist world practiced the teachings of Lao Tzu? …and everybody in the Bahá’í Faith practiced the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh? What would happen if everybody in “godless” liberalism actually practiced the teachings of Emma Goldman and Henry David Thoreau and Karl Marx and all their unknown heralds who were assassinated for social justice? If everybody practiced these things, the world would live in peace and wouldn’t be the world as we know today! Hence, strengthening Islam from the inside, and the world outside will automatically set into its true path.

    3. Works must commence to develop the location into a “Faith City”. That location should be declared by Muslim nations and organizations as centre for all Muslim to practice true Islam with a sole objective to strengthen their faith in accordance the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and the companions’ lifestyle, free from terrorism, military, worldly materials, television radio internet and entertainments, political influence, modernization, secularization and man-made laws etc. We can even include those embracing other religions but willing to sacrifice worldly materials and practice their true religion. It will become a free land for all Muslims and nations who wish to pursue basic lifestyle, basic economy and barter, learning Islam and performing ibadah. It will become a centre for knowledge and practice of faith. People will sacrifice their sectional belief and set aside differences, and unite under the name of “Muslim”. People will unite through the PRACTICE of Five Pillars of Islam and Six Pillars of Faith. Everything else is secondary, especially the practice idolism by the Kemalist!

    4. The objective is to purify the heart, mind and the soul! These Muslim will self-produce and consuming basic foods. There will be no manufactured food or foods as we know today. The Muslim live in a small hut build around the mosque. They have one or two set of cloths and live by the standard of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and companions. They will encourage the spirit of generosity and giving up possessions. They freely give what is needed and freely take what they need, give and expecting nothing in return, forgiving all debts and owing nobody a thing. Their sole objective is to strengthen their faith and purifying the heart, mind and souls. Hence the city does not need Banks, Walmart or Exxon and all the things we have in our world today.

    5. Muslims should start works by presenting and encouraging these ideas to the political party and their government. If they’re not agreeing to these ideas, then choose someone else to be their leader. The world and the politician wouldn’t be the monsters that they are without you!!.

  241. commentor says:

    …and one more thing, please read the following job vacancy!!

    QUESTION:
    Are we waiting for the Imam Mahdi, or the Imam Mahdi is waiting for us?

    JOB VACANCY, URGENT!!!
    To join Imam al-Mahdi and bring peace to the world.

    AVAILABILITY:
    313 of Muslims urgently needed, and on the basis of first come, first serve!

    JOB DUTIES & RESPONSIBILITIES
    • To strictly follow the path of the Al-Quran & Hadith;
    • To strictly follow the lifestyle and the path of the Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wasallam) and the companions;
    • Free from committing any sins, especially riba of paper money!
    • To guard their body and five senses against all negative influence.

    “…Keep us on the right path. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors….”; al-Fatihah:7

    PREREQUISITES:

    Prophet Muhammad (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wasallam) said, “…And whosoever lives long from amongst you will see much differing and controversy, so it is upon you to stick to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of my rightly-guided successors – cling to that with your molar teeth…” (Aboo Daawood (#4607), at-Tirmidhee (#2676) and others)

    The Messenger (sallallaah ‘alayhe wa sallam) said, “…The Jews split into 71 sects, and the Christians split into 72 sects. My nation is going to split into 73 sects, and all of them will be in the Hellfire except one…” It was said, “Who are they, O Messenger of Allaah?” He replied, “…They those who are upon what I and my Companions are upon….”

    “…and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord!…” al-Baqarah:285

    SALARY: Will be rewarded by Allah SWT!! …and confirm admission into the heaven! Insyallah!!

    LOCATION:
    As per hadith.

  242. Deniz says:

    To all Arabs who say Ataturk is Zionist spy and fucking Turkish women are prostitutes.

    In 1979 I was visiting London. What I saw made me disgusted with Arabs. An English girl told me that she was standing by a underground station and an Arab approached her and asked her \”how much for sex\”. I told her \” Lady, I am Turkish and we do not behave like these dirty Arabs.\”

    I was walking past a posh Hotel in London and saw an Arab arguing about money with whores.

    In those days, Arabs had so much money and they thought they could buy anything. You had to see it. They were all 100% Muslims.

    In Dubai, you can buy all kinds of women -Iranians, Afghan, Russians, Filipino.

    A French engineer told me he saw an Arab masturbating in a beach buggy while watching him with with his friends on a beach.

  243. REAL TURK says:

    Its people like you Deniz why people don’t like us Turks. There are people on this forum trying to unite arabs and turks once more how it once used to be and with the example of how some arabs are these days you talk about what this arab does and what another one does. Have u seen the turks in england? Turks with many whores, turks doing many things going clubbing etc. Obviously not just the turks, the arabs and the pakistanis are doing it too. What im trying to say here is their is no need on bashing the arabs, just look at ourselves.

    Why not unite? Why should we Turks not be proud of our Heritage? We are the sons and the daughters of the Mighty Seljuks and Ottomans, and Mustafa Kemal is a Freemason son of a bitch. I will not even call him Ataturk because he is not a “GREAT TURK.” Why not call Suleiman or Osman..Ataturk? They were the great leaders of our once great nation! Islam was what united the Turks and the Arabs forget NATIONALITY ITS ALL BULLSHIT WESTERN FREEMASON INDOCTRINATED TO CAUSE FITNA AMONGST THE MUSLIMS..AND ITS WORKING!!!

  244. REAL TURK says:

    oh and of course we can stop it from working…by uniting and stop slagging off each others. turk or arab or w/e…as long as muslims stick together we are powerful.

    Also one of the above posters criticised the Christians in a post. Its not the christian, or the jews. It is the freemasons (devil worsshipers). They are desendants of the former knights templar and shaytan tempted them…told them to join his cause and they will get the power they want…and thats what they have got now. Its not the Christians working against us, as you see..there just aren’t many Christians in the world anymre…by name of course but they aren’t actually Christians. George Bush…by name Christian but really a Freemason. Do people not see? Its not jus the Christians..every muslim leader is at it aswell!! Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, Assad of Syria, Gadaffi of Libya, Saudis, even our own Turkish military commanders themselves. Can you not see they are under the influence? If they were true muslims, they would unite under the banner of Islam, and if only me or some other people in here were leaders of our respective countries..inshallah we could bring change. But Allah is the best of planners.

    To Commentor, maybe the Mahdi is waiting for us, we should change ourselves begin to unite, turks and arabs sunni and shia. LET US UNITE!!

  245. commentor says:

    Guys! Wake up! This is a war between Iblees (Lucifer) vs. all religions! Its time for Revolution! Its time for change! You may not live for the next few years for reason of depopulation of the earth or for other reasons… and if you’re able to survive, can you survive the following hadith?

    Hadith narrated by Ibn Majah, Ibn Khuzaimah, and ad-Dhiyaa’, attributed to Abu Umamah, reports that the Prophet of Allah, sallallahu `alaihi wa sallam, said, “There will be three hard years BEFORE THE DAJJAL (APPEARS). During them, people will be stricken by a great famine.

    > In the first year, Allah will command the sky to withhold a third of its rain, and the earth to withhold a third of its produce.

    > In the second year, Allah will command the sky to withhold two thirds of its rain, and the earth to withhold two thirds of its produce.

    > In the third year, Allah will command the sky to withhold all of its rain, and it will not rain a single drop of rain. He will command the earth to withhold all of its produce, and no plant will grow. All hoofed animals will perish, except that which Allah wills.”

    He (sallallahu `alaihi wa sallam) was asked, ‘What sustains people during that time?’ He said, “Tahlil, takbir and tahmid (Saying, la ilaha ill Allah, Allahu Akbar and al-hamdulillah). This will sustain them just as food does.” [Sahih Al-Jami` as-Saghir, no. 7875]

    I doubt people could survive these great famines. We may survive without food for certain period of time, but can we survive without water? Is there anything to replace water? Is it safe for us to store water since many willing to die for it? Will there be electricity and technology without water?

    This hadith might explain the depopulation of the earth. This hadith might explain why small number of Dajjal and Mahdi’s army to be considered as a world army…. and this hadith might explain why Muslim would be able to take over and rule the world since many will die before the appearance of Dajjal and Imam Mahdi.

    People will be troubled to such an extent that they will long for death. There will be great confutation, intense disputes, violent deaths and people are afflicted by disturbance and experiencing great fear. The Muslims would be under severe persecution, oppression and they will have no place to run. It is only then the
    Imam Mahdi and Dajjal will be sent….

    Now, what will you do if you know there are only few years to live? Sit and wait arguing about petty things?

    Its time for revolution… and its starts with you becoming a true believer!! Change and choose the lifestyle of the 313 companions!! Choose the lifesytle “…We hear and obey, our Lord!…”.

  246. Salah says:

    Commentor..the way you write/speak truly has an effect on me. I hope inshallah i and many Muslims and even non-muslims change our lifestyles. Inshallah.

    As i have said many times, and as REAL TURK said, let us unite..as the one ummah as we once were. Allah will only change a condition of a people when they change themselves. To all Turks and Arabs in this forum, i plea to you that you settle ur disputes and unite as Muslims and forget our nationalistic pride, which has divided the ummah.

  247. commentor says:

    Now is our final call for revolution and evidencing from the facts that Allah is revealing all the secrets to us. Gog and Magog have been released since the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and we are now witnessing the collapse of the US, and the rise of Israel as a world power. The USD is replace by SDR and will be implemented in early 2010. It may take two years for US to fully collapse and all nations to rise against world oppression and deception. It will be a World War III, as early 2012-14.

    Hence, we may have two years and should unite and take immediate action to change ourselves because the Iblees (Lucifer) have successfully setting up the foundation for all to enter and REMAIN IN HELL FOREVER, i.e. for a simple reason riba of paper money; al-Baqarah:275; darurah will not be accepted (an-Nisaa:97); tawbah will not be accepted (an-Nisaa:17). We will REMAIN in hell forever if we die today, and it does not matter whether MKA is a great hero or not. Question of economy, race, nationality and the past etc are totally irrelevant… What is relevant is the Al-Quran & Hadith.

    Hence it is the present that we have to fight for, and Muslim should unite for Islam and arrival of Imam Mahdi (as). Muslim should only be identified through the PRACTICE of Five Pillars of Islam and Six Pillars of Faith (conditions to be called as Muslim). Muslim should be fearful of Allah and testify to His Unity, and everything else is secondary and should not or least be taken into consideration.

    Muslim are now facing with no working solution, and left with a sole solution to strengthen our faith, every each of us!! It is the most practical, effective and efficient solution. Every Muslim should struggle and prepare their children to achieve the characteristics of the companions of Imam Mahdi (as). Every Muslim should struggle in anyway they can to bring the highest and maximum level of faith so that the hearts are stronger than iron and there is no place for doubts in the hearts, becoming a devout worshippers by the night and like the lions in the day!

    313… and only 313 for us to take over world!! If we need to do it by military training, do it!! Take whatever action and in anyway we can to reach the number!! We have to focus on the number!!

    • hb says:

      I am upset that you place the hadith in the same breath as the Koran. One is man written and the other is not. Which one is more important to you commentator.

      • commentor says:

        Its true that a hadith have rules to quote but why you’re requiring me to choose between Quran and Hadith when I have been commanded to have faith on both the Quran and the Prophets? Do you have one over the other?

      • commentor says:

        Which one is more IMPORTANT to you commentor

      • hb says:

        Ramadan Mubarak commentator, what I am saying is that only one book has been promised protection from Allah. But I could be wrong, I have only read the Koran once and if you can prove me wrong it would clear up a lot. And to answer your question if you haven’t figured it out yet is that the Koran is more important.
        Don’t get mad, I’m not here to upset anyone, I’m just looking for answers

      • commentor says:

        Oh ok.. that facts already known to all Muslim. It is undisputed facts.

      • hb says:

        commentator, where are you from and how old are you?

      • commentor says:

        30+ Malaysian and we’re working to establish a complete system of muslim community practicing the lifestyle of Islam. The concept have been around for centuries in Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand, viz. the Pondok (shelter), where people live to study Islam and practicing the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and the companions’ lifestyle. However, more efforts needed for the implementation of sunnah money in the local economy. Nowadays, there are some progress and our Central Bank, the state government’s company and some of the commercial bank (and even the Chinese bank) is producing the Gold Dinar for use in the local market. The Malaysian State Government of Kelantan also becoming a partner in e-dinar project. Muslim now have the foundation and the alternative to free themselves from riba of paper money, Alhamdulillah, and hopefully more efforts from all Muslims around the world to bring down the primary source of masonic strength; i.e. fraud of paper money that enslaving Muslim nations around the world.

      • commentor says:

        Oh and one more thing.. this is one of the alternative on how to bring down the system. http://www.theclassactionsuit.com/

  248. Ethesta says:

    Dear Commentor,
    You said ‘To all true believer (not the Kemalist, Secularist and Atheist)…” How can you? How dare you say Kemalists and Secularists are the same with Atheists. I am a Kemalist and a Muslim. Are you Allah? Are you forbidding me from Islam? How dare you? Really? Don`t you see they -Kemalists and Secularists are all Muslims. Don`t you see they believed in and worked for Islam? Don`t you see they realized one of the masterpieces of Islam in 20th Century. Can`t you comprehend what they achieved in the name of Turks and of course in the name of Islam? Now in Turkey we got more mosques than the whole Arab countries. One of the biggest arguments against Kemalism was Turkish ezan(call to prayer). Thanks to the opposition now I am listening it in a foreign language -Arabic- 5 times a day. Let me tell you something-nobody understands it. Even an Arab could not in most of the places. Since the one who is saying ezan do not know Arabic… It is like ezan in German for Arabs in Arabic countries. Is it a big sin to listen ezan in Turkish?
    Everyday more than 75 million people thank to Allah. And say “Elhamdurillah Muslimanim”. If those guys-Kemalists and Secularits were not there they supposed to say “Haleluyah” (I don`t know if I wiritten it correctly). Don`t you see the ones who put those ideas into your mind are the ones used by -so called- freemasons?
    By the way, since Arabs couldn`t deal with USA or Israel they created -freemasons thing. Actually most of the Arab countries are under the invasion of USA and of course indirectly by Israel -like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia…. They are the puppets of that system. And for nowadays we -as Turkey- became too -thanks to AKP and Fettullah Gulen- a CIA agent. Before you judge Ataturk as freemason think about the ones who are in charge of Arabic countries. They are the sons and daughters of those -so called- freemasons. Invasion of Iraq achieved by Saudis. Freemasons are thanking those Saudis, I believe. No matter how much they pray, they will pay. In HELL.
    I couldn`t find any reference for Ataturk as freemason at Wikipedia. Sorry. It may be my fault. Please send me the link. But I could not understand -just under the leadership of a freemason- why Turks would fuck all of those Britts, Greeks, French, Italians, and Russians during their weakest period of their history. Freemasons supposed to be against Islam. Right? Not in favor of Islam? I believe that Ataturk was the greatest leader against freemasons-and sadly he still is… I am waiting your comments on these.
    Thank Allah to give us the strength for destroying the ones who dare to invade Turkey and thank Ataturk -and the generations under his command- since they did the best for us-as Turks. Please do not comment on this as I am putting Ataturk as the same with Allah. Please be able to separate the meanings. I am thanking Allah and Ataturk… If you still think that I am putting him as Allah than you should not thank to anybody in your life from now on-even to your mother while she is giving you a glass of water…
    By the way I cannot figure out how a country could have a religion. Can Saudi Arabia -as a country- as a formal being- pray 5 times a day? How Germany could attend to church on Sundays? How Israel -as a state- can feast? Could it be a secular company? An Islamic company? How a company could go to mosque? How a Muslim Supermarket could be? Can a supermarket be Muslim? Can it go to heaven? How about a car, or pencil? Can a car be Christian? or Muslim? or Jew? I got a Muslim pen. It feasts during Ramadan. How could it be? How materials or corporations or countries could have a religion? It can not be! Only humans who represent them could have religions. Because religions are for humans. Not for materials or associations. As a Muslim secular I am asking: How a pen could be Muslim? It is so simple. Please answer…

  249. Ethesta says:

    Dear hb,
    I am sorry about the things I said regarding your country-Afganistan (how it is written in Turkish). I know you are BRAVE. You -as a whole country- experienced “extremely” bad happenings for the last decades. I am sorry for all of this. I hope I do not have a smallest responsibility about the things happened there. I know you -Afghans are trying a lot over there. I am confused-really. I was thinking that we may all surrender to imperialism at the end.
    But now things are changing. Imperialism is collapsing. I hope, “true” democracy and goodwill will replace it. But please believe me -as a Muslim you may fear from God- if you did something wrong. But please love him more than you fear-HE -Allah- is the GOOD one…
    At the end you will prevail. As you Afghans always did. You should know that…

  250. Ethesta says:

    Dear Commentor,
    Do not fear from Allah -if you did not something very bad. He is merciful. Love him. Love Allah and the way to him. At the end, He is the one who created you. You will return to Him…

  251. Ethesta says:

    Dear Commentor,
    You believe that you are one of the 313 companions. Let me say that there are more than 313 million companions out there. And you most probably are not in the top 313-since you spent time by writing comments at Internet-the so called- biggest evil…
    I don`t know your age-hope younger than 20. I know that you have goodwill for all of Muslim World. And, I know, I cannot change your ideals and thoughts through this thread.
    But let me tell you something: The World is different. Rules are already decided. In order to change it you should obey them. The whole World is under the control of capitalism-even if you like it or not. Even if it is good or not. Please ask yourself all the time: Am I the puppet of this system? Be aware that the ways used by capitalism/devil are very different. They will not hesitate to use the name of Allah for their objectives…

    • A Rahim says:

      Alhamdolillah there is opposition to the Kemalist Regime!! Why Say the Adhan In Turkish Language if the Adhan is for a Muslim Nation? Do you say your Salat/Namaaz in Turkish too? Be careful of these as this is clearly a plan for you to forget the Arabic and therefore lose the Quran.
      All across the muslim world the Adhan and Salat is Said in Arabic. If you love Allah (SWT) even a slight effort would be made to understand the short call to prayer.
      You can only get the true feeling of the Qur’an if you learn and understand it in Arabic.
      The Qur’an Is Arabic everything else is translations where the full meaning of the Qur’an will be lost in translation.
      Don’t praise Mustafe Kemel!!
      Praise Allah!!
      Make dua’a Inshallah

  252. REAL TURK says:

    Sorry but the freemason thing is not made up..you are clearly blind. ASK YOURSELF WHY THERE ARE SUCH THINGS GOING ON IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW? ASK YOURSELF WHY MUSLIMS ALL OVER THE WORLD ARE SUFFERING? Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India..its happening everywhere! It is clearly a Freemasonic Capitalist agenda based on the coming of Dajjal.

    Ethesta..please do your research regarding this matter as you clearly don’t know what your talking about. Just start off by watching the Arrivals. Nobody has ever denied that the Saudi’s aren’t freemasons. Isnt it clear they are to everybody? Not just the Saudi royal family, Hosni Mubarak of Egypt and Libyas leader..and Assad of Syria.

    Ethesta…let me ask you, what has Secularism done for Islam? I am a Turk, who completly opposes our Turkish regime!! If we do…and as you know too we are arrested!! Is THIS DEMOCRACY? Secularism has destroyed the Islamic culture. The reason we don’t know what the azaan says and don’t understand the Quran is because there is no longer an Islamic state!! During the caliph, it was obligatory to read the Quran and understand its meanings…obviously towards the end of the caliphate fings became very different, but thts how it was during the Rashiduns, Ummayads, Abbasids and early Ottoman Period.

    MUSTAFA KEMAL..the freemasonic son of a bitch…destroyed the caliphate and destroyed the honour of Turks which our ancestors had earned during past centuries? YOU CALL HIM ATATURK? Call Suleiman the Magnificent or Osman Ataturk!! They were GREAT TURKS.

    The Quran was given as a guide to mankind, a guide on how to form goverenment, a guide on how to live our lives, it is truly a unique book mashallah and truly the word of Allah. You talk about true “democracy.” The true democracy is going back to the original ways, implement the laws of the Caliphate..even if there is no Caliph!!

    Also..yes the world is under the control of Capitalist Freemasonry..but obey it to change? Brother…you really are worrying me. It is realising what is wrong with this world and distancing yourself from it as much as possible which will be good for your soul. You obey it…and your one of them. Do you not agree?

  253. commentor says:

    @Ethesta

    1. No offence, but becoming a Muslim or a true believer is not free, and not like what you used to think, we have to work hard to get the status of a true believer. Please read the Quran and find the differences between a believer, a Muslim or Mukmeen, a Munafiqoon (hypocrite) and a Kufr. Let me just give you few examples from the Quran:

    Meaning of true believer: “…The dwellers of the desert say: We believe. Say: You do not believe but say, We submit; and faith has not yet entered into your hearts… The believers are only those who believe in Allah and His Apostle then they doubt not and struggle hard with their wealth and their lives in the way of Allah; they are the truthful ones…”; (49:14-15)

    Meaning of Kufr: “…And should you ask them, Who created the heavens and the earth? They would most certainly say: Allah. Say: Have you then considered that what you call upon besides Allah…”; (39:38)

    2. Further, please stop misleading others and defining Islam in relation to how many mosques you have built, the ezan, arabic language etc. Islam is not what you think and Islam is a religion of total submission to Allah SWT; “…Surely my prayer and my sacrifice and my life and my death are (all) for Allah, the Lord of the worlds. No associate has He; and this am I commanded, and I am the first of those who submit…”; (6:162/3) …and of course, Islam is also not just about performing prayer, fasting, alms giving and performing pilgrimage. These are only mechanism used to bring us to the true ibadah in Islam; viz. total submission to Allah SWT. A perfect prayer would restrain us from committing shameful and unjust deeds (29:45), and perfect almsgiving (zakat) will purify and sanctify Muslim (9:103), a perfect fasting will make us learn how to becoming self-restraint, and a perfect pilgrimage will open our heart to witness the true benefits of life and celebrate in the name of Allah (22:28). Now do we need to argue that someone can acquire all these without performing the Five Pillars of Islam? Suit yourself, but not me…

    3. Thirdly, stop acting like a Socrates by asking “…How a pen could be Muslim?…” Ask yourself do the earth, the sun, sky, mountain and all creatures obey Allah SWT? Of course they do, and they’re far better than the non-believer in terms of obeying Allah SWT …and stop posting a nonsense question do “ideas” like corporation, country is a Muslim or not. Do ideas exist? Who create these ideas if not the Lucifer himself? Who makes you believe in these ideas if not the Lucifer itself (through the Knights Templar, Freemason and Illuminati etc)? These ideas, Secularism and the idea of rational thinking (free from faith) is the religion created by the Lucifer, a religion of a godless world; “…Luciferianism is the product of religious engineering, which sociologist William Sims Bainbridge defines as “the conscious, systematic, skilled creation of a new religion” (New Religions, Science, and ”Secularization”)…”. …and Secular spirituality by Wikipedia

    4. What do you mean by saying “…Do not fear from Allah -if you did not something very bad. He is merciful….”. Is this the teaching of Islam and our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)? Why are you feeling so comfort when all the creatures and living things, and our Prophets Muhammad (pbuh) and the companions are so afraid of Allah SWT? What religion do you practice? If you believe Allah is Merciful, why can’t you believe that at the same time Allah is Al-Jabbar (The Compeller), Al-Muntaqim (The Avenger), Al-Mudzillu (The Dishonourer), Al-Hakeem (The Wise), Al-Adl (The Just), and Al-Haseeb (The Reckoner). Why adopting the concept of trinity or any concept of separation when Allah is Al-Ahad (The One)? Do you think heaven is for free? Do you believe the hadith that 99.9% will enter into the hellfire? Do you know that paper money is riba and Allah stated that “….If ye do it not, TAKE NOTICE OF WAR from Allah and His Messenger…” (2:279). Ok, how many people do not use paper money? Can we validly claim ourselves as a Muslim when we are in fact is at war with Allah and His Messenger? Do we not feel any shame, and taking everything for granted, especially to admit ourselves as a believer?

    “…Shall We inform you of the greatest losers in (their) deeds? (These are) they whose labor is lost in this world’s life and they think that they are well versed in skill of the work of hands. These are they who disbelieve in the communications of their Lord and His meeting, so their deeds become null, and therefore We will not set up a balance for them on the day of resurrection…”; (18:103-105)

    5. Finally, what makes you say I’m one of the 313 companions? Do any of these words appear in my comment or intended as an insult to the 313 companions? Are you blind? If not, what are you? Nevermind since what you think is irrelevant.

  254. haldun says:

    Talk ,Talk, and more Talk about Ataturk there is to much bullshit going on. this is to all the so called muslims and the wana be real turks you cant live your deen in hatred . im a turk and i love it i am living my deen i love my country i love my people and i love ataturk i thank ALLAH for it . so you wana make a change to the world change your personality. were a billion strong try to stop us you fake fucks

    • commentor says:

      No offence and for the purpose of discussion on the Luciferianism (supra; definition of Luciferianism) and Secular Spirituality, the statement is an example for a religion that gone through the process of religious engineering, the conscious, systematic, skilled creation of a new religion (New Religions, Science, and Secularization).

      What is the meaning of religious engineering? Ok and we make an analogy with genetic engineering. Genetic engineering means “…alteration of the genetic structure of an organism in order to produce more desirable traits…” (by chances, or producing poison, H1N1 etc)

      Now and if we assume Islam is the the genetic structure of an organism, this would means “…an alteration the religion of Islam (or any religion) in order to produce more desirable traits (of religion, i.e. new religion that satisfy human passion or our won vain desire)…” No wonder gayness is legalized today. No wonder it is okay to say Bismillah before drinking beer. “…Say: O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship (lifestyle) that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship (lifestyle). To you be your Way, and to me mine…”; Al-Kafiroon (109)

      What is the true position of Islam? We love someone or something because he obeys or something advancing our faith to Allah SWT and His Messenger. We love someone because he is a Believer and a true Muslim. (Take note that I’m not saying that we must hate, but love them? “…Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers…”; (3:28)). Nonetheless and the practice of Islam today is we love someone because what he did is against the Al-Quran and Hadith and satisfy our own vain desire, because of wealth, because of label of country that separate Muslim (vs. the earth) etc. We even practice idolism and yet admitting we are a true Muslim or Believer. We say that we are only thank you someone for what he did but we change all the system and follow all his directions (differences between appreciating vs. worshiping).

      We practice all these things not because of our religion say so, but the true reason is because it feels right and reflects our true selves (meaning merely because our own vain desire says it’s the right thing to do), and only then we try to find some rationalization in the Quran and Hadith. If there is no rationalization, we rationalize it as humanely activities or traditions and ignore our religion. This is what it means by the Luciferianism; the product of religious engineering… the conscious, systematic, skilled creation of a new religion (New Religions, Science (rational thinking) and Secularization, no pagination).

      This is happening all over the world and to 99.9% of us! This is happening to Muslim nations! The so-called Oprah Winfrey self idolism and fake happiness! Life satisfaction! Teaches us to worship ourselves and what we desire. “…Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body…” (33:04) — definition of god in the Quran “…Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own vain desire?…” (45:23).

      ….and worst, we believe that we’re gaining the world by practicing all these things, we believe we have a life! …but and in REALITY …. We are actually losing the world, and don’t have a life. We are losing our sowing field for the akhirah and unable to labor the true benefit of our lifetime in this world (our only place and chance to prove that we submit to Allah SWT). We are losing the world we live today and the afterlife, because we’re living through illusions created by Lucifer (and notice how Lucifer distract human by using “ideas” to divert their true meaning given by Allah SWT. E.g. Earth & Country… Human & Corporation? Etc. just to make us busy and fight with each other Quran & King/Hero?….).

      • commentor says:

        Supra: definition of god and true meanings of La illaha illa Allah

        La illaha illa Allah
        There is no god (desire, passion or lust) worthy of worship except Allah

        Meaning of god from the Quran:
        god = Our own vain desire or passion or lust

        Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own vain desire? ” (45:23)

        Seest thou such a one as taketh for his god his own passion? Couldst thou be a disposer of affairs for him? Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle; nay, they are worse astray in Path” (25:43/4)

        It is this passion or desire that creates other religions we know today, divide human, and reason for human to disobey Allah SWT and His Messenger… and this the main target of the Lucifer (Iblees), which he then created the practice of Luciferianism from “ideas” and mechanism of New Religion (lifestyle/practice), Science (rational thinking without faith), and Secularization (adherence to a spiritual ideology without the advocation of a religious framework).

        Thus we should restraint ourselves in accordance the Quran & Sunnah, and monitor what we practice or our lifestyle. “he who follows his low desires without any guidance from Allah” (28:50)

        It is not enough for simply to recite La illaha illa Allah, and it does not benefit without fulfilling all seven compulsary conditions: i.e. knowledge that negates ignorance, certainty that negates doubt, acceptance that negates rejection, submission that negates abandonment, sincerity that negates shirk (associating partners with Allah), truthfulness that negates falsehood (meaning hypocrisy), and love that negates its opposite, which is hatred: (1)( 2).

  255. Jalal says:

    @ commentor

    Like Salah says, you you speak to my very being. How many Muslims are there ? I say only 30%. In Turkey only 5%. We need to purify our Ummah of this sewage.

  256. mohammed says:

    it is not important whether you are turk, arab, pakistani or Indian- what matters is that we are all reciters of the same Kalimah of Tauheed -and this is what unites us all.
    a united muslim ummah is what the Zionist controlled west is afraid of- and they keep finding ways to create more divisions & fighting amongst us-WAKE UP!

  257. haldun says:

    i have to say that commentor has a point where all distracted by the devil. when im praying in jumah i feel united but outside its the other way so what i could say is allahamdurillah im a muslim.

  258. Abdullah says:

    Mohammed is right its obvious the West fears a united ummah. Look at whats happened everytime there ahs been a united ummah…peace in the middle east. The Freemasons don’t give a shit about the Jews or Christians or Muslims, as long as we keep killin each other in the middle east there will never be peace. Creating the divides even further between Muslim and Muslim makes us weak. We should unite.

  259. commentor says:

    @mohammed/Abdullah
    I agree on the united Muslim Ummah . We have two institutions, the Khilafah and the Ummah; “If there is neither a group (Ummah) nor a chief (Khilafah)?…” (Bukhari) …and further, the true Khilafah will not exist until there is a true Muslim Ummah. The Khilafah will become strong if the Ummah follow the Quran and Sunnah; becoming a true believer; “We hear and obey, our Lord !” (2:285), “None dispute concerning the communications of Allah but those who disbelieve” (40:4) (see also 58:22) …and this is the path taken by our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) “to rehearse to them His Signs, to purify them, and to instruct them in Book and Wisdom” (62:2) and why the Prophet (pbuh) rejected the Kufr’s offer to be a leader. Becoming a leader or establishing the Khilafah is secondary. Our Prophet (pbuh) focus on the creation of a true Muslim Ummah (a true believer) before the establishment of a Khilafah! “The believers are only those who believe in Allah and His Apostle then they doubt not and struggle hard with their wealth and their lives in the way of Allah”; (49:14-15) We can bring the Khilafah now but without a true Ummah, the Khilafah will have no meanings to Islam… without a true Ummah, Islam will be rejected by the hypocrites and all the so-called Islamic politics, economy or social is a deception and manipulated by the mason and Lucifer. They will be busy arguing about world matters and ignoring or manipulating the Quran and Hadith, and Islam. For that reason we have first to focus creating the Ummah that follow the true path of Islam… AND guess what? The good news is that we don’t need millions or thousands, but just 313 to start bringing world peace! Insyallah! …the 313 that follow exactly the Al-Quran and the path of our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and the companions! …free from any bid’aah and syubhah. “So lose not heart, nor fall into despair: For ye must gain mastery if ye are true in Faith” (3:139) “That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew!… And another which ye do love,- help from Allah and a speedy victory. So give the Glad Tidings to the Believers” (61:11&13)

    • commentor says:

      supra:

      “…Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Success…” (58:22)

  260. Salah says:

    Yup i agree. I think i have said in my older posts above…that God will only change a condition of a people when they change themselves. It is clear that the Muslim Ummah now is weak, and no longer following the right path. Only when we return to the ways of the prophet and strive to be like him as much as we can..then only can the ummah unite. Inshallah..we on this forum can do this..with the people that we love and spread the message and Allah shall reward us. Ameen.

  261. commentor says:

    @Salah

    Just to share information… I think the best way is to start in small country or village and practising to strengthen our “Aqeedah” and “Faith”, free from paper money. Other small steps to start with our preparation, and since this is the month of Ramadhan… is to test our Iman is by eating like our Prophet (pbuh), once in every three day? Take lesson from the hadith that Allah SWT prisons the lust for thousand years without foods. Food and our pattern of eating is the key to fight our lust! … and the main objective is to eat food that is tasteless and just to have strength to perform ibadah. (If you strong… limit our sleep for only 2 hours in this month of Ramadhan) Thus there will be STRICTLY no other taste other than the taste of rice and plain water. Remember that our Prophet (pbuh) have two stones in his stomach and must be very hungry. I’ve tried eating rice and plain water for 40 days, and you will be surprise that we are actually not so strong like what we think or appear to be. You’ll be surprise to find out there is monster inside and seducing us to eat any food that has taste in it. Strongly resist till the end of this Ramadhan!! …and recite Tahlil, takbir and tahmid… and this surely will be our first experience to meet the real monster inside ourselves.

  262. commentor says:

    + you will experience the true prayer as early on the day 14… so peace and close to Allah SWT!!

    • commentor says:

      Sorry, not 14 but on day 7… peace and close to Allah …without any active mind, happiness, sad or any emotion whatsoever or even our lust… since our body will not have the energy to think or feel other than the greatness of Allah SWT. Muslim! I’m sure you’ll definitely love this experience!! Priceless and no money or wealth can afford to buy this kind of experience! Not even the richest man on the earth, or even Rothschild!! Rice, water, sleep 2 hours p/day, and dzikir +read and understand the Quran!

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  264. Ethesta says:

    Dear Commentor,
    A bitch could be more Muslim than you… Don`t take it offensive. It is a saying in Turkish. Face it: A bitch could be more -or better (if you wish) – Muslim than you. In a split of a second in her lifetime she can do something and the doors of heaven could be opened. How can you know? How could you know how Allah act, decide and evaluate?
    Let me tell you something- you are selfish. Extremely selfish. You only think your place in heaven or hell. You live with that. You do not spend -or just spend minimum effort for this life-this is called luxury in my book. Life given by Allah requires a lot of effort. You must accept His present. At the end we are all created by Him-with all our characteristics and attributes.
    I believe -for example- Benjamin Franklin who found electricity- should be at heaven rather than you and me-even he is a Christian. (I don`t know you-if you have found a breakthrough thing for humanity -if you had than it is just me…)
    You copy and paste from Quaran. For this you should be thankful for the ones who found copying & pasting. Thank the ones who invented Internet and computer. Thank the ones who found electricity. Be thankful for all the people who able you to these all. At the end you are thanking to Allah who created them. And He is wise to understand that-don`t worry. Like we-Turks- thank to Ataturk.
    Never use that ‘son of a bitch’ statement for that holy person again. He has been sent by Allah to rescue Turks-in my -and several other tens of millions of people- opinion at least. If you ever use that again I am going to question your believe in Allah and will not correspond you one more time. Good Muslims must never use that word. If you use it than you should have hate in yourself. In order to get into these 313 you must not hate any person-don`t forget. It is a bonus point… Chin chin chin. You got JACK POT, man. Ticket to heaven…
    I doubt that Arabs are not living a true Islam under the occupation of the West. I believe they are leaded by Freemasons. How much they pray it will work for Freemasons. It is the best way not to awaken the ones who have been lost during the trip to find Allah. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist. By the way you should take their wealth by selling them luxury cars, yachts, jets, and other stupid things. Do you have a car Commentor, by the way? Really? What is its model? Are you also serving to Freemasons?
    Yeah, we have very different opinions about life and Allah. I can figure that. While you think you gonna burn in hell since you could not wake up early enough to pray in a day, I am thinking what shall I do next in my life for the wellbeing of humanity to get to the heaven. I am not saying you should not pray to Allah, or not fast. What I am saying is you should find an equilibrium. Praying to Allah only will not make other people happy -they need food-medical attention-education-safety. Serving them means serving Allah. How much you pray it will not be a matter for Jews to bomb those children… It may only support your kingdom in heaven-at least you think so.
    What I am trying to say is you must understand REALPOLITIK as Germans said before. You are living in a dream. Believe me Allah do not hate you/us so much. He loves us all. With all of our perfect and faulty sides. At the end He is the one who created us all.
    Let me tell you something else, who ever says and do not ignore it later: “Essedu enla ilahe ilallah ve essedu enla ilahe illallah” (don`t know if I written it correctly or not-it is in Arabic-but intention always prevails…) becomes Muslim. It is not so hard. Just say it. And you will be accepted by Islam. The rest is between you and Allah. I will never know how much faith you have and how much Allah has in you.
    On the other hand, for religions we-as humans- killed the one who has been created by Allah and believe Him. We killed his wife, children. And they killed us because of religion. Maybe more than a billion people perished for religion wars-and still dying. Did Allah liked it? I don`t know. Did He enjoyed it? I hope not…

  265. Ethesta says:

    Dear Real Turk,
    How can you think that Ataturk was a Freemason? It is extremely illogical. How Ataturk who stopped West invasion of a Muslim country could be a Freemason? How Ataturk who created Turkey from nothing be a Freemason? How Ataturk who changed the lifestyle of Turkish people could be Freemason?
    Leaving Turkish people in that lifestyle would be much more appreciated by the West. As Arabs do right now. Therefore West hate us so much. Turks-the only eastern culture could resist their invasion with the help of change.
    Aren`t you still a Muslim? Don`t you hear ezan 5 times a day in Turkey-EVERYWHERE? Can`t you go to mosque to pray? Did you ever experience a criticism in Turkey since you pray? Did anybody told you not to fast? Did any tiny obstacle prevent you to realize your pray to Allah? Some prohibitions have been put-for handcarchieves at univerisities for example at the last decade. I never accepted that. And still think that this prohibition is serving to Freemasons to change regime in Turkey by creating unrest among people. Sharia is much better for West to control Turkey-as they do Arabs.
    Winston Churchill was one of the greatest Freemasons? Who planned Galipoli attack to capture Istanbul and caused more than 500 thousand souls to perish in First World War-(losses were quite equal between Turks vs Australia, British India, New Foundland, New Zealand, United Kingdom and France). The one who is the creator of idea of Israel in the middle east?
    How could you say that Ataturk as Freemason won one of the greatest wars against England, French, Italy, Greece, etc. Than you are saying one of the principles of Freemasonry is to protect Turkish people. In this case you are saying that Freemasons are ready to sacrifice more than half a million Christian soul to protect an Islamic country? You say that Freemasons are the ones who protect Islam? Are you insane? Did you ate your brain with cheese & bread (if he is a real Turkish he should understand)?
    Don`t be puppet of Freemasons. They are using you. As they do with Fetullah Gulen and Tayyip Erdogan. In the name of Islam, West is occupying my country. They must pay back. And they will. With the help of Allah we will again stand against the invasion of West. This time in the name of Islam they are coming. They are wise. As they were a hundred years ago…

  266. Ethesta says:

    And dear Real Turk,
    Never use that statement again against Ataturk. “Son of a bitch” was a word used by Freemasons against him nearly hundred years ago. Don`t be a Freemason. Even if you are don`t say it. Respect your enemy. He did great things for us. And if you are a Muslim you must not say bad words after a deceased one. Are you Muslim by the way? Or are you a Jew or Christian?

  267. eD says:

    @Ethesta

    1. Now your statement doesn’t sounds like Muslim who follow the Quran and Hadith, desperately crawling from one statement to the other without a point, rather than following the earlier discussion and replying what is relevant. How old are you? …you sound like people quarrelling, rather than presenting your argument like an adult.

    2. You say “How could you know how Allah act, decide and evaluate?” when Allah sent down the Quran and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to give us clear guidance; “This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear God” (2:2) By the way, do you read the Quran? Do you mind if I ask whether you perform the 5 pillars of Islam? Your statement sounds strange, and I doubt since you’re relying on the argument that allowing you to reject the Quran, and even curse people who made reference to Quran, and worst, greatly favour philosopher of the German and the disbeliever. You even misinterpret the story of a bitch to contradict against all the crystal clear statement from the Quran, since and obviously, that is the only story appears to favours those who want to be bitches. You’re relying on a single story to reject the bigger part of the Quran and the Hadith. You believe in the misguided freedom when Allah clearly stated that: “Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: “I will create a vicegerent on earth ” (2:30), and “O ye who believe! stand out firmly for God, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear God. For God is well-acquainted with all that ye do”; (5:8)

    3. Then you say and conclude people who think and live thinking about heaven or hell (means people who live for Allah, and that is what a Muslim commended to do) is extremely selfish. This means you reject the conditions of Kalimah Tawheed. “Surely my prayer and my sacrifice and my life and my death are (all) for Allah, the Lord of the worlds. No associate has He; and this am I commanded, and I am the first of those who submit”; (6:162/3) Is this what you declare to Allah in your daily prayer? Do you pray? How could you declare to Allah and then deceive against it? Is this not what the hypocrites do all the time? Worst, you believe a Kufr like Benjamin Franklin should be entered into heaven, and no wonder you believe MKA is a true Muslim. You still didn’t understand that Islam is not about doing goods, but doing goods in accordance the Quran and Sunnah, doing goods in accordance the Allah’s command. It’s not about to love everyone, but it’s about to love someone in accordance the Allah’s command. That’s why Allah is the Merciful, and at the same time Allah is The Compeller, and the traits evidenced in the Prophet (pbuh). If you want to based your argument on goodness alone, the answer this… how many people in this world that did so many good things but enters into hell because they are not Muslim? What about our Prophet’s uncle, who was very nice to the Prophet but could not die as Muslim and enter into heaven? Now you’re able to see, hopefully….

    4. Then and again, you’re still blind about the Syahadah and will never see the difference between the real Muslim and the hypocrites, since you never read the Quran, do you? and do you have faith in the Quran and Allah? You even believe entering heaven is like a Jackpot, “Chin chin chin. You got JACK POT, man. Ticket to heaven”, ouch!! What a disgusting statement to come out from person who admits he is a Muslim… Not a single Muslim in this world would dare to play Jack Pot with faith and Allah. Only the hypocrites did all the Jack Pot things, and they afraid of die for Allah too.

    5. As for the so called “REALPOLITIK” and “The World is different. Rules are already decided. In order to change it you should obey them”, You still not learning from the story that our Prophet reject the offer to be a leader from the Kufr… Ok, lets face it, you don’t have faith in Allah. Stop pretending… If you think you cannot possibly survive without all these things, then you believe they are greater than God. And you believe God is not in control, is not sovereign. You have no faith, and all your talk of God is utter nonsense. You are using the name of God in vain. Then you wonder why the word “God” is so loathsome to your people.

    6. Your statement sounds like Allah is not the one who protecting Islam and the Muslim, and you believe we will perish from this world if we obey the Quran and Hadith. Your statement sounds like you’re putting your faith into your country (ideas) and the distorted western life, instead of Allah. You’re professing your own religion, the one that satisfy your passion and allows hypocrites to reject Allah and the Quran. I wonder what you will call to our Prophet if he lived today and you witness him burning houses of the hypocrites for not praying in the mosque (to preserve the true Ummah and believer). What about not paying zakat? Or not going to Jihad? What about if you see the enforcement of the Shariah Law? I wonder you’re so called Islam will be accepted during the lifetime of the Prophet (pbuh). I wonder when the time come, would the Mehdi join your so-called secular Islamic religion, or could it be that you will be the army opposing the Mehdi with the American, European and the Israel… since you have clearly choose your side and make clear to all Muslim which side you will be fighting for. This would clearly indication to Muslim who you really are and what you will be. Finally, you’re still being blind when by referring I’m the person who uses the “son of a bitch” statement…. and I pray for Allah that you will not be blind forever.

    7. Your blindness is the reason many Muslim die since you set the wrong standard and bring your disbeliever allies to force the true Muslim to let go the standard of Quran and Hadith, to force the true Muslim to let go their faith in Allah and surrender to the enemy of Islam. Obey the one who oppose Allah swt…. and yet you claim you are true Muslim.

    • eD says:

      Supra: No.3 “…You still didn’t understand that Islam is not about doing goods, but doing goods in accordance the Quran and Sunnah, doing goods in accordance the Allah’s command…”

      Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. Thou (O Muhammad) seest them bowing and falling prostrate (in worship), seeking bounty from Allah and (His) acceptance. The mark of them is on their foreheads from the traces of prostration. Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel – like as sown corn that sendeth forth its shoot and strengtheneth it and riseth firm upon its stalk, delighting the sowers – that He may enrage the disbelievers with (the sight of) them. Allah hath promised, unto such of them as believe and do good works, forgiveness and immense reward. (48:29)

  268. REALTURK says:

    han you are saying one of the principles of “Freemasonry is to protect Turkish people. In this case you are saying that Freemasons are ready to sacrifice more than half a million Christian soul to protect an Islamic country? You say that Freemasons are the ones who protect Islam? Are you insane? Did you ate your brain with cheese & bread (if he is a real Turkish he should understand)?”

    WTF!! I NEVER SAID FREEMASONS PROTECT ISLAM?!?! SERIOUSLY…WTF!! PASTE ME WHERE I SAID THIS.

    n dont say he protected islam he stopped this he stopped invasion of turkey all tht bullshit…theres only a certain amount Allah will let happen, remember Allah is the bestof planner, and what happens is what he wills. At the end of the day…Ataturk was a freemason, he went against the Ottomans and is not a true muslim!!

  269. Jihan says:

    im turk and agree with realturk. we are the sons and daughters of the great ottomans…why we should associate ourselves with mustafa kemal. he is not a great turk, the great turks are the ottomans. they made our islam and turkey power, they made turkey great. every1 can talk about how MK saved the grave of the prophet, he didnt let anyone invade turkey…all tht bullshit like realturk said but would Allah let someone destroy the prophets grave? NEVER.
    i dont think it was even the wests plan to invade turkey, by installing a secular government theyve already gone against teh principles of islam. remember the way an islamic state should be run and the law of allah is writtin in the quran…so supporters of secularism..ITS ALL BULLSHIT.

    i read quran and i dont understand arabic, but i have english translation with arabic. read and understand ethesta..then may allah show you the right path.

  270. haldun says:

    I strongly believe that everyone on earth is effected by freemasonry But only if they will
    and i personally think that mka was not a strong muslim but i could say he was a human being and should be rewarded for his achievements also i don’t believe that politics and the prophet (pboh) should be argued ISLAM has it’s own rules and engagements if you where to follow the sunnah of the prophet (pboh) doe’s that meen to ride on a donkey or to give all your wealth. we are all effected by western living weather it be mobile phones or cars or even clothing so if you accept the western living doe’s that mean your not a muslim? we cannot come close to being like the PROPHET (PBOH). the best thing that someone could do is be a good example and thats what MKA did in the 1900’s

  271. haldun says:

    “NE MUTLU TURKUM DIYENE”
    EZAN DINMEZ BAYRAK INMEZ

  272. Jihan says:

    ok ur right that in todays society where we are influenced by western society we as normal citizens (not leaders) dont rlly have a choice. but MK is not a good example…why change the calendar of the Hijrah to Gregorian? WHY? Why change to secularism..when the rules and laws of the way an islamic state should be run is in the quran…why? we should atleast strive to be like the prophet and his companions as much as possible not stray even further. yes the caliphs towards the end had strayed but the basic laws were there, they had not changed. why change it mk? i fink adopting western clothing is not a problem..western clothing also covers the body and there are western clothing that doesn’t…its upto the person what they wear.

    Freemasons are worshippers of shaytan and shaytans war against mankind is nearing its end. their plan has worked to the point where they have caused countless amounts of fitna within the ummah, just look at us on these forums, some with MK and some not..but as ppl have sed b4 me, allah is the best of planners and we shall be rewarded if we stay steadfast and try as best as possible to follow the word of the prophet.

  273. commentor/ed says:

    There is misconception about Islam because of the agenda and our ignorance. They; of course through their agents (everywhere, and most leaders of the world), have planned for the Ummah to became fascinated with their fake economy, politic, social and lifestyle/religion, and make the Ummah believe Islam is being incapable of solving contemporary problems of life. Their main objective is to destroy our faith, and the Ummah nowadays came to see no harm in giving up Islamic rules and adopting others.

    Now, could this be the test of Allah, to see who submit to Allah or Lucifer?

    For those who believe this test, we don’t have to ride donkey since Islam is “not about what you used, but about how you used it”. Islam is about ibadah and used whatever people want, or do whatever jobs the can as long it satisfy the conditions of “hablum minannas“; i.e. condition to convert our daily activities/jobs/used of things etc as ibadah: (a) intention for Allah; (b) perform in accordance the syariah; (c) does not involve anything haram or syubhah; (d) the effect benefit to self and mankind; and (e) not leaving the main ibadah, e.g. solat fasting.

    However and since the end of the Khilafah, we are experiencing the new era, which Allah described as; “O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors (World Bank? United Nations? WHO? ICC? Arbitration? Etc.): They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them (meaning is a Jews or Christians); (5:51)

    Now and for Muslim that perform 5 pillars of Islam, can we consider becoming and dies as a Jews or Christians is the best and good example it can be (ie. remaining in hell forever)? Can we consider falling deeper into the trap of that fake economy enslaving nations, politics, social, and lifestyle/religion is the best and good example it can be? This is the reason our Prophet (pbuh) stated “…Will there by any evil after that good?”… “If there is neither a group (Ummah) nor a chief (Khilafah)?” He said, “Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite the root of a tree…” (Bukhari) …strict order from the Prophet (pbuh) to Muslims, and I let you decide for yourself…

    Other alternative/Solution:
    Sūrah al-Kahf and the Modern Age
    An Islamic View of Gog and Magog in the Modern World
    The Establishment of Muslim Village

    • commentor/ed says:

      Supra: The words “…They are but friends and protectors to each other ..” refer to our age since history shows Jews and Christians are not friends and protectors to each other, ie. for a simple reason that the Christians claim the Jews killed Jesus, their god.

    • commentor says:

      Supra: …and of course, the prohibition only refer to certain Jews and Christians, and during certain age, since Muslims are allow to marry Jews or Christians (by conversion etc), and Muslim commanded “and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just”; (5:8). Please read the above book (link) to understand the true meaning of the words.

    • commentor says:

      Great Book on Islam: The Quranic Foundations and Structure of Muslim Society
      Volume 1: Book 1 & 2
      Volume 2: Book 1, 2 & 3

      Synopsis: The Quranic Foundations and Structure of Muslim Society was written by the distinguished Islamic scholar and Sufi Shaikh, Maulana Dr. Muhammad Fadlur Rahman Ansari (1914-1974), and was first published in Pakistan in 1973 just a few months before his death in 1974. It is not only a masterpiece of modern Islamic scholarship, but it also courageously identifies serious deficiencies in contemporary Islamic scholarship as one of the major causes of the decline of the Muslim world. Muslim scholars and leaders who are but carbon-copies of the West are busy trying to modernize Islam so that it can be accommodated in godless way of life of modern western civilization. They create a creature called Islamic Modernisma. Dr. Ansari also realised that the attack of the west extended beyond the intellectual to include the moral and spiritual dimensions of the Muslim personality. He identified a crisis of character that had overtaken Muslim society that, according to him, is the deadliest poison to have ever paralyzed and killed human society. How should Muslims respond to the relentlessly increasing attacks on Islam and on Muslim society these next few decades? How can they survive the next few decades if they cannot establish macro-Islam anywhere since they cannot take control of the State anywhere? The answer is that Muslims must concentrate on establishing micro-Islamic communities wherever they can. If such Muslim communities are to be established on the authentic foundations of the Qurâan and Sunnah, and are to survive the relentless and diabolical attacks of the enemies of Islam, they must strive to implement the entire guidance that emerges from the Qurâan and Sunnah. That guidance has to be extracted, classified and articulated in a manner relevant to the concrete situation facing Muslims today. This is precisely the task that Maulana Dr. Ansari has accomplished in his magnificent work.

    • commentor says:

      Further and if we look closely and understand the today world system, we will realize that everything is fakes… It is an illusion, an ideas, created by Lucifer to destroy our main institution, ie. the true Muslim Ummah, and making us busy fighting with each other like barbarian… Everything is fake from nationalism, money creation, the economy, political, social, education, world and local institution, history, Jesus, Kings/Queens, tribes, the Constitution, the law, and worst… our Islamic scholars and Muslim leaders (the MKA category of leader and Islamic scholars from all over the world), who are our worst enemy and becoming the carbon-copies of the old western barbarism community and the Jahilliyah lifestyle, disguising the Luciferian Religious Engineering by the name of Islamic Modernism, so it can accommodate the “condition of barbarism where every tribe and sect was against the next”; Please refer to The Quranic Foundations and Structure of Muslim Society – Book 1 Part 1 (pg 49), for the general condition of the society before the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It is only after Muhammad (pbuh) people was able to unite. People abandon their lifestyle and the practice of assabiyyah or what we called as nationalism, a concept which absolutely alien to Islam. By comparing all these things, we will came to realize that people of today is in the same situation before Islam, no one able to practice any true religion… and we have to starts from zero… creating the true Muslim Ummah.

  274. Salah says:

    Thanks for the links :)
    I urge everybody to read these links, and a lot of them back up..with proof from the things that i have said.

    It really makes me angry and want to shout out..how can any MUSLIM accept a modern secular state? It is truly against the laws which the prophet (pbuh) and the quran itself tells us to live by. COMPLETELY AGAINST IT. How then can you say you are a muslim supporting Mustafa Kemal and his secular regime? Its nonsense. This is not just against the Turks, the Republic of Pakistan, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, its all secular…and its all wrong.

    I urge everyone to click and read on the links posted by commentor, and also watch “The Arrivals” it is closely linked to what commentor has posted above.

  275. commentor says:

    Like what Syeikh Imran said, “…Who decides what is right and what is wrong? The society? Religion? The Government? I myself? …or the mango trees?…”, and in a modern secular state, Allah have no words to decide what is right or wrong. That power is given to other than Allah, ie. the State, and this is Shirk.

    …and those who votes the government are the one decides Allah have no words in relation to what is right or wrong! …and there is no rule for darurah when it comes to Shirk! Those who votes committing Shirk; “…whoever recommends and helps an evil cause shares in its burden…” (4:85); “…nor does He share His Command (i.e., His Sovereignty, Supreme Authority, Governance, Rule, etc.) with anyone whatsoever…” (18:26); “…Praise be to Allah (Who) has no partner in His Sovereignty…”; (25:2); “…The truth is from your Lord, so let him who please believe, and let him who please disbelieve; surely We have prepared for the iniquitous a fire, the curtains of which shall encompass them about; and if they cry for water, they shall be given water like molten brass which will scald their faces; evil the drink and ill the resting-place…” (18:29).

    For that reason, we have to focus on the creation of a true Muslim Ummah and follow the path of our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), starting from zero. Please read the book on The Quranic Foundations and Structure of Muslim Society (your true responsibility) and then you will get the idea how the Muslim Ummah will rise again; “…Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves…. that He may enrage the disbelievers with (the sight of) them…” (48:29); “…and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just…”; (5:8).

    • commentor says:

      Supra:

      Darurah will not be accepted: “..Behold, those whom the angels gather in death while they are still sinning against themselves, [the angels] will ask, “What was wrong with you?” They will answer: “We were too weak on earth” [The angels] will say: “Was, then, God’s earth not wide enough for you to forsake the domain of evil?” For such, then, the goal is hell – and how evil a journey’s end!..” (4:97)

    • commentor says:

      Supra: ..of right and wrong

      and He has set up the Balance (of Right and Wrong)” (55:07)

      It is Allah Who has sent down the Book in Truth, and the Balance (of Right and Wrong)” (42:17)

      We sent aforetime our messengers with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance (of Right and Wrong)” (57:25)

      (The answer will be:) “This is because, when Allah was invoked as the Only (object of worship), ye did reject Faith, but when partners were joined to Him, ye believed! the Command (of Right and Wrong) is with Allah, Most High, Most Great!” (40:12)

      nor does He share His Command (of Right and Wrong) with any person whatsoever” (18:26)

      There is no god but He: That is the witness of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice (of Right and Wrong). There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise” (3:18)

      Say: “Who is the Lord and Sustainer of the heavens and the earth?” Say: “(It is) Allah.” Say: “Do ye then take protectors other than Him, such as have no power either for good or for harm to themselves?” Say: “Are the blind equal with those who see? Or the depths of darkness equal with light?” Or do they assign to Allah partners who have created (anything) as He has created, so that the creation seemed to them similar? Say: “Allah is the Creator of all things: He is the One, the Supreme and Irresistible” (13:16)

      And they set up (idols, system, goverment, laws etc) as equal to Allah, to mislead (men) from His Path! Say: “Enjoy! But verily ye are making straightway for Hell!” (14:30)

  276. hb says:

    Everyone chill out, we need a United Islamic movement. When Islam spread and conquered the Eastern Romans and the Persians they did not discard their useful qualities. They incorporated them within their own system and became a more complex and intelligent society. We need a united Ummah, but should we discard all of the elements of the modern world. Yes we should rid the world of pornography, prostitution, mysogny and any harmful/hateful aspects of modern society. We shouldn’t be ignorant and accept that we failed to progress and now we are an embarassed people. We have to put our differences aside, we are all humans and we all return equal to Allah. The only thing that will distinguish us in the eyes of our creator will be our piousness. We all have ideas, so lets stop trying to convince one another that we know how to get to heaven, or we have the cure for the Muslims ailments. We have to accept one another, our differences are actually very minimal. Our rivals have accepted each other and their differences are tremendous. Why are we lagging behnd like a three legged mule. Ethesta, Salah, Commentator, Abdullah: we are all Muslims here, and we are all at the mercy of Allah. So lets act like brothers and stop the pointless bickering. Hola back!

  277. commentor says:

    @hb

    The statement is perfect, and reflects a true leader. It reflects the true and common understanding of the world today. Nonetheless, does it relevant? Does it represent the reality? …or the illusion? We live in the Dajjal’s age and should know how to differentiate the reality and the illusion. For Muslim to truly progress in this world, they have to let go “meanings”, and redefine their meanings and understanding according to the Quran and Sunnah; “The truth is from your Lord, so let him who please believe, and let him who please disbelieve” (18:29); ie. the formula for our success.

    1. “We are all Muslims here… so lets act like brothers“: Muslim are brothers to those who perform the 5 pillars of Islam and 6 pillars of faith, and no Muslim will be brothers to those who are Muslim by their Passport or Birth Certificate or solely on his statement of Syahadah “And should you ask them, Who created the heavens and the earth? They would most certainly say: Allah”; (39:38). Muslim by their Passport or Birth Certificate is an illusion created by Lucifer through the modern secular state, and is not a reality. It is the illusion to allow the kufr and the hypocrites to become the Muslim leaders and Islamic scholars. Nonetheless and if he performs the conditions but a hypocrite, so let it be between him and Allah. Our concern is whether he performs the conditions to be called a Muslim (cf. with conditions of marriage, and whether marriage is valid when one of the conditions is not performed?).

    2. Do Muslim need a United Islamic Movement? Yes, but it depends upon three main questions (a) Whether there is an Islamic Movement?; and (b) Whether the Muslim need a United Islamic Movement more than they need to avoid shirk of the modern secular state (or sin)? and (c) What is the specific command of this age?

    3. For the first issue and to those who live in reality of the Quran and Sunnah, there is no Islamic Movement, ie. Shirk of the modern secular state, riba of paper money, government price control (riba) and etc. As for the second issue, this is a choice between “preserving the so-called Muslim world” and “preserving our individual faith”. If Muslims have to surrender their individual faith to preserve the so-called Muslim world, then Muslim do not need the so-called united Islamic movement. It’s fake and a deception, and Allah had give clear guidance in the Quran; the story of Ashaabul Kahfi and Ar-Raqim in Surah Al-Kahfi, which they choose to preserve their faith over the world and went to live inside the cave; “They will answer: “We were too weak on earth” [The angels] will say: “Was, then, God’s earth not wide enough for you to forsake the domain of evil?” (4:97). Finally, what is the specific command for this age? The answer is “he amongst you that turns to them is of them (meaning is a Jews or Christians)” (supra); “It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path” (33:36); “If there is neither a group (Ummah) nor a chief (Khilafah)?” He said, “Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite the root of a tree” (Bukhari);

    4. “We have to accept one another, our differences are actually very minimal… Our rivals have accepted each other and their differences are tremendous”: No and this is not the reality. It is the illusion and the one that other religion or Christian used to say. This is the concept from what known as Enigma Babylon One World Faith:.. seeks to harmonise the remaining faiths on earth… This new syncretistic, global religion accepts any religion and faith in the world, claiming equality” What is the position of Islam? Allah had give clear guidance in Surah Al-Kafiroon, “I will not worship (lifestyle) that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship (lifestyle). To you be your Way, and to me mine”; “no change (let there be) in the work (wrought) by Allah: that is the standard Religion: but most among mankind understand not” (30:30); “Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred” (58:22); “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves” (48:29); “Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers”; (3:28); “and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just” (5:8).

    5. Should “we discard all of the elements of the modern world”? Yes and all the system and our system of belief are totally contaminated. We have to redefine all our understanding and differentiate between the reality and an illusion; “The truth is from your Lord, so let him who please believe, and let him who please disbelieve” (18:29). People of today are in the same situation before Islam, and live in the “condition of barbarism where every tribe and sect was against the next”; ie. through the practice of capitalism. We take the concept of money creation and capitalism. Is this reality or illusion? No and it is an illusion. It is not the true economy. For those who understand the theory of money creation and the effect of interest (riba) (situation where money created are far less than money payable to the bank), and understand capitalism is about making maximum profit by providing the best service and lowest price, then you will realize that capitalism killed and cause billions of peoples suffering. Ask yourself? How can you make profit when they have to sell at the lowest price? Even a child could see that they need cheap resources. How do they get cheap resources? By war and manipulating their resources! By controlling local and world governance, etc. No Muslim will proud to see this illusion, and dreaming to be successful under the current system!

    6. Should Muslim “stop trying to convince one another that we know how to get to heaven, or we have the cure for the Muslims ailments”? No and since this is our second agreement with Allah; “I will create a vicegerent on earth” (2:30); “And call in remembrance… His covenant, which He ratified with you, when ye said: “We hear and we obey“” (5:8); “Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah” (3:110).

    7. Okay and now many will say all this is very unreasonable, nobody can practice Islam in today’s world, and thus everyone will enter into hellfire. Exactly! Now you’ll realize who is the real servant, Allah or you! To those who wish to make Allah as his servant and believe entering heaven is like a Jackpot, you should be very fear of Allah!; “do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (Heaven) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: “When (will come) the help of Allah? ” (2:214); “but the Word from Me will come true, “I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together” (32:13); “Follow (O men!) the revelation given unto you from your Lord, and follow not, as friends or protectors, other than Him. <strongLittle it is ye remember of admonition” (7:3) “Adam will ask: ‘O Lord-God, who are they?’ Allah will say: ‘Nine hundred and ninety nine of a thousand (ie. 99.9%) are for the hellfire while one is for heaven” (Bukhāri, Muslim).

    8. Are we going to die if we follow the Quran? Maybe …or maybe not, but why we should be worried? Who can prevent death? Who has ever prevented it? We should only worry how to obey Allah because we are not living by chance, and everything has already been planned. Even if we die, why would our death will now be such a drama? If we obey Allah, why would Allah forsake us when He said “fulfil your covenant with Me as I fulfil My Covenant with you, and fear none but Me” (2:40). Nonetheless, “Most of them We found not men (true) to their covenant: but most of them We found rebellious and disobedient” (7:102). Fear of Allah and nothing else, everything has already been planned! “Because Allah will never change the grace which He hath bestowed on a people until they change what is in their souls” (8:53)

    Finally the answer is about the importance of following the Quran & Sunnah, and becoming a true believer. The need to create a true Muslim Ummah, and redefine all our understanding and meanings according to the Quran. This is the true formula for our success. We have already live in world of deception for ages and it is our time to realize and learn from our mistakes, especially by appointing the hypocrites to become our leaders and scholars, putting trust and believe in them instead of Allah and the Quran.

    Further and to those who want to believe, change yourself and be a true believer! Make Hijrah and build a society where Muslim can practice true Islam and preserving their faith. Stop pretending and deceiving yourself as a believer. Read and redefine your understanding according to the Quran; “Shall We inform you of the greatest losers in (their) deeds? (These are) they whose labor is lost in this world’s life and they think that they are well versed in skill of the work of hands. These are they who disbelieve in the communications of their Lord and His meeting”; (18:103-105). To those who insist to be a disbeliever, Allah ask you to “Enjoy! But verily ye are making straightway for Hell!” (14:30).

  278. Jihan says:

    Commentator you are right. I don’t really have nothing left to say except one thing. Where have all the pro secularists and pro mustafa kemal supporters gone? Isn’t what we have all been telling you…and especially what commentator has said having any effect? Id like to know.

  279. turana says:

    Look and See. Fear and bow down. We ruled you for so long yet you have forgotten the Turkish sword.
    We build a pyramid of you skulls as high as the pyramid of Giza.

    Ataturk we want to serve you,

    We want to fight for you,

    We will die for you,

    We will never surrender to the evil Islamic cult,

    Ataturk you died too soon.

    To help to defend and finish the you work is the highest duty of all Turks.

  280. REALTURK says:

    STFU…UR AN EMBARRSMENT TO ALL TURKISH REAL MUSLIMS.

    THE TURKS THT RULED OVER THE ISLAMIC LANDS FOR CENTURIES WHICH EVERY MUSLIM RESPECTS, OSMAN, SULEIMAN, MEHMED. THESE WERE GREAT TURKS. HOW CAN ANY TURK SEE MK AS A GREAT LEADER? HE WAS A FUCKIN FREEMASON..U HAVE ALL BEEN BRAINWASHED..AND UR COMMENT ABOVE JUST PROVES THAT YOU AND MK HIMSELF WAS AGAINST ISLAM.

    R THE TURKS ON THIS FORUM XCEPT FRM ME AND JIHAN NOT PROUD OF OUR PAST? YOU ALL TALK LIKE ATATURK SAVED UR ASSES WHEN IN FACT HE DIDNT. IT WAS THE SELJUKS AND THE OTTOMANS WHO MADE US GREAT. IT WAS UNDER THESE THAT TURKS AND ARABS WERE UNITED AND ALL OTHER NON TURK/ARAB MUSLIMS. YOU ALL ASSOCIATE YOURSELVES WITH A HOMOSEXUAL FREEMASON MK AND ARE PROUD OF HIM..WELL I HOPE U ALL BURN IN HELL WITH HIM.

  281. haldun says:

    Well this is for realturk cursing someone and saying that they should burn in hell is going against islam anyway let me ask you something would you fight for freedom how about fighting for the innocent ?no! so your not proud of your past than how can you call your self a realturk you would prefer to be a bastard.i suggest you read the holly cur’an again the word of ALLAh not somefake fuck like yourselfare

  282. haldun says:

    are you a follower of islam or hate so you think you can go to heaven with hate

  283. REALTURK says:

    ok ill give u tht i shudnt have said u all burn in hell. BUT WTF? of course im proud of our past. how can we not be proud of what the ottomans did for us and islam as a whole.

    Read between the lines and free your mind. What you read on the internet, the books u have of ataturk is all bullshit. why do u fink the west is so loving of ataturk? He established “secular” society. A secular society is completely haraam. it is against what ALLAH HIMSELF HAS TOLD US in the Quran. ALLAH REPEATS AGEN AND AGEN, STAY STEADFAST TO THE LAWS AND THE WAY OF LIFE I AM COMMANDING YOU TO LIVE. I HAVE READ THE QURAN.

    WHAT DID MK DO? INTRODUCED A SECULAR SOCIETY. U CALL HIM MUSLIM? HE WAS A FUKIN FREEMASON!! HE WAS A WORSHIPPER OF SHAYTAN!

    YOU CAN TALK ALL U LIKE ABOUT HOW HE SAVED UR LIVES AND FREEDOM ALL THT BULLSHIT, BUT WHY CHANGE THE CALENDAR OF THE HIJRAH TO THE WESTERN CALENDAR? WHY? ANSWER ME.

    I CALL MYSELF REALTURK BECAUSE I AM PROUD OF THE SELJUKS AND THE OTTOMANS. I AM NOT PROUD OF THE PERIOD POST-OTTOMAN. HOW CAN U ASSOCIATE YOURSELF WITH ATATURK.

    JUST THINK ABOUT IT, HE MAY HAVE “SAVED” TURKEY, BUT DID HE SAVE ISLAM? NO! HE DESTROYED IT. YOU CANNOT BE PROUD OF A PERSON WHO DESTROYED IT.

    HOW CAN U BE PROUD OF A MAN…WHO ENCOURAGED NATIONALISM? WHO ENCOURAGED DIVISION BETWEEN ARAB AND TURK. HOW? FOR CENTURIES UNDER SELJUK AND OTTOMAN WE LIVED TOGETHER! NATIONALISM IS ALSO HARAAM!

    WHAT BRINGS US TOGETHER IS ISLAM!! NOT A MASONIC SECULAR UNGODLY STATE WHICH TURKEY…AND MANY ARAB COUNTRIES HAVE BECOME!

  284. hb says:

    Real Turk is correct about nationalism, it is Haram and a tool used to divide the us from them. Secularism is also a deceptive cover for a system far worse towards religion than Communism. In America and the rest of the West we are told that we are “free” to believe in religion. But the vast majority of Westerners are atheist or agnostic(an atheist without the guts to admit that he/she is an atheist). We are deceptively taken away from our faith, unlike Communism which is blunt about it. We are told to act like are celebrities and pursue what has brought them so much success.

    @Commentator
    You argued with one of the Turkish brothers on whether loving Allah of fearing him. Remember that the Jews solely fear God while the Christians solely love God. We as Muslims must keep a balance between the two. And if 99.7% of humanity is going to hell than that is really disturbing to me. I don’t believe it but i hope that you are not too serious about that.

  285. commentor says:

    I was about to share the following links and saw your comments. ;-) Okay and if you understand the true meanings of Syahadah and its conditions, the condition is by priority and the condition of love is the final stage of our submission. This is the highest level of Iman, and not merely a blind utterance as what the so-called Muslim practice today. The practice is not “love” but “lying“. To love Allah we must have “ikhlas“, and our love must be evidenced from our AMAL!, and it is always AMAL!, instead of what the hypocrites always do, ie. by utterance alone; “..Shall We treat those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, the same as those who do mischief on earth?..” (38:28). Thus, it is actually impossible to love Allah when we still feels burden to obey Him.

    Further, I wish I could have the same belief, and ignore the Quran and Hadith, but the most important question is how many people able to fulfill all the conditions of the Syahadah?. Now we can wake-up from our dream and make real estimate how many will enter into heaven!

    Secondly, how many believer does not committing the sin of riba of paper money; “..those who repeat (usury) are companions of the Fire: They will abide therein (forever)..” (2.275), “…If ye do it not, TAKE NOTICE OF WAR from Allah and His Messenger…” (2:279); Lecturer 1 & 2, and 3.

    Okay and from the Quran, can we assume heaven when we are in fact is at war against the Allah and His Messenger? Is our ibadah accepted when we are at war against Allah and His Messenger? Do we realize that “war” include intention to kill, and not merely a fight against Allah and His Messenger? Do we realize that no matter what our understanding on Allah (the Merciful etc), Allah clearly stated “..and there is none like unto Him..” (112.4), and that He is “al-Ahad” and thus 99 of His asma will combine so that no one able to imagine what Allah truly is?

    For that reason, we have to rely on the Quran and Hadith, I have not found any justification to think such a way other than “…Shall We inform you of the greatest losers in (their) deeds? (These are) they whose labor is lost in this world’s life and they think that they are well versed in skill of the work of hands…”; (18:103-105). That’s the reason I cannot simply think or assume I’m a believer without confirming it with the words of Allah and His Messenger, without living in reality…. Thinking of becoming a believer does not make me a believer and worst, will only deceive and take me far away from the true path of Islam.

    Hence and the best I can do before making hijrah in 2010 is to minimize the use of paper money and seek protection under the rules of darurah; “..if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful..” (2:173), avoiding myself from involving with the state’s activities, strugle hard to improve myself to be a believer; “..Except for those who repent, mend (their lives) hold fast to Allah, and purify their religion as in Allah’s sight: if so they will be (numbered) with the believers. And soon will Allah grant to the believers a reward of immense value..” (4:146), pray for Allah forgiveness and do my best (maximum effort) to change my lifestyle, or hablum minallah and hablum minannas, eating rice, water, sleep 2 hours p/day, and dzikir + read and understand the Quran! (supra). Only after Hijrah I will look upon the fulfillment of all conditions of the Syahadah, Insyallah!

    However, you’re free to believe whatever you want and from your understanding on the Quran or your research. If you have some information, then share .. hopefully this will bring some light to our discussion. The following is some of the facts to support my believe and briefly, 99.9% going to hell because:

    (a) non-fulfillment on the conditions of Syahadah
    (b) riba of paper money
    (c) shirk of modern secular state
    (d) 99.9% are children of gog and magog – ie. through the defintion of al-Maidah:51

    Facts:

    Brief introductions to Knights of Templar, Freemason and Illuminati:
    Who are the Freemason and Illuminati?

    What is Kabballah and its origins?

    “…They followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon: the blasphemers Were, not Solomon, but the evil ones, teaching men Magic, and such things as came down at Babylon to the angels Harut and Marut. But neither of these taught anyone (Such things) without saying: “We are only for trial; so do not blaspheme.” They learned from them the means to sow discord between man and wife. But they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah’s permission. And they learned what harmed them, not what profited them. And they knew that the buyers of (magic) would have no share in the happiness of the Hereafter. And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls, if they but knew!…” (Al-Baqara:102)

    Video

    How do they control us? 3M! Money, Military and Media
    Money
    Military (World Order)
    Media: Video 1 & Video 2

    Who are they?
    They are gog and magog, and children of gog and magog (al-Maaidah:51): Video

    What is the System, or the Dajjal System?

    O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors (World Bank? United Nations? WHO? ICC? Secular Goverment? Arbitration? etc.): They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them (meaning is a Jews or Christians)” (5:51)

    Source from the research department of the France’s Tangential University; ie. the Dajjal System

    • commentor says:

      Source from the research department of the France’s Tangential University; ie. the Dajjal System; http://utangente.free.fr/anewpages/cartes.html

    • commentor says:

      The above links does not work becuase the system self modified the links. So you need to do few adjustments. For example

      >> remove the “%E2%80%9D” or the apostrophe (“)
      …free.fr/anewpages/cartes.cartes.html < here
      …free.fr/anewpages/cartes.html%E2%80%9D
      …youtube.com/watch?v=fxPBh-5TJBQ%E2%80%9D
      …youtube.com/watch?v=nCTzMr2Dus4%E2%80%9D

    • commentor says:

      Supra: The Conditions of Syahadah and its sequence:

      The agreement between Allah and human is La ilaha illallah. The story can be found in the Quran, “When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam – from their loins – their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): “Am I not your Lord?”- They said: “Yea! We do testify!” (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: “Of this we were never mindful“; (7.172) …and our duty can be understand from the following: “I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me (24 hours); (51.56); ie. through the practice and concept of hablum minallah and hablum minannas.

      Just like any other agreement, every agreement has its terms and conditions. You can breach the contract/agreement or comply with its terms and conditions. To comply with the terms of the agreement, we must understand the terms of its fulfillment, ie. the conditions of the Syahadah. The terms and its sequence are as follows:

      Knowledge => Certainty => Acceptance => Submission and Compliance => Truthfulness => Sincerity => Love => To Deny Every Other Object of Worship (vain) => Adherence to the Shahadah until death

      Now and if we look our present world and our daily life, are we complying with the terms of the agreement? No, and 99.9% of them failed to comply with the terms of the agreement.

      Muslim today failed at the stage of knowledge, ie. they failed to read or understand the true meaning of the Quran. For certain of the Sufism practice, they teach nonsense (and even practice magic, teach Kabballah and practice Buddhism), and failed at the stage of knowledge when they put their faith into their Syeikh without knowledge on the Quran. They bypass the stage of knowledge and jump over to the stage of certainty or other stage. For the Islamic Scholars, they pass the stage of knowledge but failed at the stage of certainty, acceptance, submission, truthfulness, sincerity, love. Most of them even practice Shirk of the modern secular stage. Some of them become politician and declared to the state to enforce to law of the modern secular state, thus committing Shirk!

      To pass all the test, Muslim must have adequate knowledge on terms of the agreement, ie. the Aqeedah, Syariah and the Tasawuf. Then they must practice and reflect their faith in their lifestyle, ie. through the practice of certainty, acceptance, submission, truthfulness, sincerity, love, to deny every other object of worship (vain), and adherence to the shahadah until death: (“amal”), otherwise they are hypocrites! That’s why the words “iman” and “amal” frequently stick together in the Quran, believe in our heart and practice it in our life.

      For example, we declare to Allah 5 times a day and when we read the Al-Istiftah (inna solati wa nusuki wa mahyaya wa mamati lillahi rabbil alamin):ie. from the Quran: “Surely my prayer and my sacrifice and my life and my death are (all) for Allah, the Lord of the worlds. No associate has He; and this am I commanded, and I am the first of those who submit”; (6:162/3) but is this true and practice through our life? Ask yourself… is (a) our prayer, (b) our sacrifice, (c) our life, and (d) our death, (e) no associate to Allah, and (e) our full submission… are all for Allah? or are we lying to Allah? (making the statement with any intention to fulfill it). What about the declaration when we recite the Al-Fatihah?; “Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek” (1:5). If it’s true, then we are a believer, but if it’s not, then we are a hypocrite. Simple as that and why people cannot understand? …because they choose to be blind at heart.

  286. TheSecTurk says:

    This is patriotism and love of the Turkish people for Ataturk

    youtube.com/watch?v=uFg3EAdr7DA

    youtube.com/watch?v=3Wy-JpNuhQM

    youtube.com/watch?v=Qu6tnM7Oscs

    youtube.com/watch?v=bEiRWvFMcFE

    youtube.com/watch?v=LDE_FKs-Ogw

  287. ahmad says:

    Dear Cuneyt Isik ,

    You are such a moron that you worship attaturk as if he has created you instead of your parents. Listen attaturk was an agent of jews . It was to undermine the power of islam and muslims that they planned to break this knot by supporting these military dictators like attaturk and others. Kings are also supported by west while people in arab world hate them but america is supporting them with military might coz these kings serve their purpose. Khilafa might have been weak but Attaturk was ruthless unjustified, cruel devil and what he did he will rott in hell forever for that…….

  288. REALTURK says:

    TheSecTurk…are u muslim? be patriotic for islam, not a faggot liek him whos made turks be proud of being turk instead of being muslim turks. you wnna be proud of being turk, im gnna say what ive said many times before, look to our past of the ottomans and seljuks.

    how can any turk be proud of secular turkey and ataturk when he emphasised nationalism? its coz of turks like u many non turks consider us non muslims. just go to istanbul and u c.

    i assure non turks though that not all places in turkey are like that, just visit konya, or other places towards the borders of syria and iraq, they are still in touch with islam and most are not under the influence of the corrupt dajjal masonic regime.

  289. hb says:

    True, the kaballah did come from Babylon and it was taught by the angels that you mentioned. But still 99.9% is a very bleak number. I hope not, because i hope that more people have the intention to do what is right. I live in America and moral issues are a joke here, but i wouldn’t damn everyone. Peace out

  290. commentor says:

    Like I said, I wish I could rely on my personal opinion by saying “..I wish I could have the same belief, and ignore the Quran and Hadith..”, but is there any justification in the Quran and Hadith to support such belief? None… is there any justification to say that the Bukhary and Muslim hadith is not corroborate the Quran or it was a wrong hadith? :) ; “..The Prophet said, “Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection), ‘O Adam.’ Adam will reply, ‘Labbaik wa Sa’daik’, and all the good is in Your Hand.’ Allah will say: ‘Bring out the people of the fire.’ Adam will say: ‘O Allah! How many are the people of the Fire?’ Allah will reply: ‘From every one thousand, take out nine-hundred-and ninety-nine (ie. 99.9%)..” Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri Hadeeth No. 3125; Narrated Abu Huraira Hadeeth No. 6121; Narrated Abu Said Hadeeth No. 6122. Guess the only solution is to follow the Quran rather trying hard deceiving ourself and be happy with it.

  291. hb says:

    Commentator, would you like to exchange emails, I’m a little confused with your previous statement. But you seem interesting enough.

  292. FED UP says:

    These are quotations from a book “Grey Wolf, Mustafa Kemal: An Intimate Study of a Dictator, H.C. Armstrong, 1934″.

    “He was drinking heavily. The drink stimulated him, gave him energy, but increased his irritability. Both in private and public he was sarcastic, brutal and abrupt. He flared up at the least criticism. He cut short all attempts to reason with him. He flew into a passion at the least opposition. He would neither confide in nor co-operate with anyone. When one politician gave him some harmless advice, he roughly told him to get out. When a venerable member of the Cabinet suggested that it was unseemly for Turkish ladies to dance in public, he threw a Koran at him and chased him out of his office with a stick.”

    – page 241:

    “For five hundred years these rules and theories of an Arab sheik,” he said, “and the interpretations of generations of lazy, good-for-nothing priests have decided the civil and the criminal law of Turkey.”

    “They had decided the form of the constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk, his food, his hours of rising and sleeping, the shape of his clothes, the routine of the midwife who produced his children, what he learnt in his schools, his customs, his thoughts, even his most intimate habits.

    “Islam, this theology of an immoral Arab, is a dead thing.” Possibly it might have suited tribes of nomads in the desert. It was no good for a modern progressive State.

    “God’s revelation!” There was no God. That was one of the chains by which the priests and bad rulers bound the people down.

    “A ruler who needs religion to help him rule is a weakling. No weakling should rule..”

    And the priests! How he hated them. The lazy, unproductive priests who ate up the sustenance of the people. He would chase them out of their mosques and monasteries to work like men.

    Religion! He would tear religion from Turkey as one might tear the throttling ivy away to save a young tree.

    TURKS YOU HAVE BEEN SEDUCED BY JEWS AND FREEMASONS. WAKE UP TURKS. DESTROY THE SHAITAN KEMALIST STATE.

  293. Jihan says:

    Wow…thts a really deep story. I know im muslim and shouldn’t say it, but i HOPE HE BURNS IN HELL. A freemason like him should not be considered such a great leader. He alongside the group called “Young Turks” instilled nationalism in to the Turks, made our people believe the Ottomans and what they done for turkey was worth nothing.

    I really hope supporters of this shaytan kemalist secular state change your views. You call yourselves muslims, but you dont even realise uve gone away from the very basics.
    If u have gone away from the very basics, how can u call urself muslim?

    In defence of my own people, not all turks believe ataturks to be a great leader. Like REALTURK said, if you visit places in the east, you’ll see turks, still influenced by Islam and Arab culture. I have been to Konya and Istanbul, there is a very big difference between the two. I am a Turk living in the UK, and there are many turks who i know are still proud of their ottoman heritage and believe ataturk was a freemason, a puppet to the system of dajjal.

  294. Salah says:

    Remember though, we cannot blame the Turkish people themselves. Yes they have been seduced and become under influence of Freemasonic Secular system. But just look at the Arab countries and the Arab people themselves.

    While Turks have modernised themselves slightly, Arabs are such backward people. I also live in UK, and i live in a community with many muslims, pakistanis, bangladeshis, arabs consisting of saudis, omanis, iraqis and libyans.

    I believe it is the very basic way Arabs lead their lives, and the way they have become which is why i believe Allah is not really helping the muslim world.

    Along with Ataturk and the young turks, the arabs also become nationalistic, adding fuel to the turkish/arab divide. But its not just nationalism, its unity among arabs themselves. The Saudis hate the Omanis, the Omanis hate the Saudis, the Iraqis hate saudis, libyans hate saudis and so on. I am a friend of many of these people and they all say…”Oh tht Omani, he is not muslim, they are dirty people.”
    The Iraqi says, “The Saudis..they are dirty they believe they are better then evryone.” Bla bla etc.

    The arabs clearly hate each other. They have gone completely against the VERY BASICS of islam. I have a Saudi man living next door to me, and he locks his wife in the house all the time. I hear arguments through the walls all the time. Next door to them an Iraqi lives, and the Iraqi who understand arabic tells me, the woman is fed up with her life, she can never go out only with the man.

    Arabs now believe they the “SUPERIOR” muslims compared to others. I know a man who openly says: “The prophet was arab, we are arab, it makes us better then you.”
    Yet hes completely forgotten the verses of the Quran, and what The prophet himself said in his last speech!

    “An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood.”

    Now ask yourself, is this Islam? This type of Islam is also being used in Saudi Arabia. Women were allowed out…by themselves in teh days of the prophet. Women had freedom. Now the saudis themselves give them nothing. Is there any wonder why Saudis are under constant attack from teh west about their lifestyle?

    I also have an uncle living in the UAE. He says there is a big community of Palestinians there. He says all the world feels sorry for what is happening in Palestine, but when u meet the Palestinians in the UAE, and how they believe they are better then everyone, how they act and how they behave, you no longer feel sympathetic for the Palestinians.

    Now everyone ask yourselves, why are Muslims in the state we are in today? I believe it is simple. As well as going astray, commiting shirk, not staying commited to the ways Islam teaches us to be like, i believe the problem lies in our very own homes.

    As ive said before, for Allah to really help us, we must first change and help ourselves. Only then will Allah change the condition of a people, and in this topic, specifically the Arab nations. I pray to Allah always, asking him for there to come the time where we all unite under one banner to come swiftly. Inshallah it will be soon.

  295. hb says:

    Bravo Salah, i have mentioned that a few times and i’m glad to hear that I’m not the only one. I knew a Palestinian who warned me and my fellow Afghans that we would pay for what we did to them. I made sure he never said that again. But your statement makes me believe that Islam will not rise to power from the old East/Middle East. It will rise from the West where people are looking for answers to racial disharmony. We are all human Salah, and as Muslims we are all equal, the only differences being, as you mentioned are piousness. Your statement was on point brother. I hope to hear from you as this blog continues.

  296. commentor says:

    World today is in the state before Islam, where “every tribe and sect was against the next”. Why? This because we ignore the Quran and return to the glorification of ancestors and the age of Jahilliyah, after the Prophet (pbuh) eliminates this concept of “nationalism”.

    CONDITION OF THE WORLD AT MUHAMMAD’S ADVENT:
    The Quranic Foundations and Structure of Muslim Society – pg 9

    In the fifth and sixth centuries the civilized world stood on the verge of a chaos. The old emotional cultures that had made civilization possible, since they had given to men a sense of unity and of reverence for their rulers, had broken down, and nothing had been found adequate to take their place

    “It seemed then the great civilization which it had taken four thousand years to construct was on the verge of disintegration, and that mankind was likely to return to that condition of barbarism where every tribe and sect was against the next, and law and order was unknown

    The old tribal sanctions had lost their power … The new sanctions created by Christianity were working division and destruction instead of unity and order. It was a time fraught with tragedy. Civilization, like a gigantic tree whose foliage had overarched the world and whose branches had borne the golden fruits of art and science and literature, stood tottering … rotted to the core.

    Was there any emotional culture that could be brought in to gather mankind once more into unity and to save civilization?

    And, then, speaking of the Arabs, Denison says: “It was among these people that the man (Muhammad) was born who was to unite the whole known world of the east and south. …”

    Muslim should return to the path of Islam and the only difference is either believers who are aware or the transgressors who do wrong. Only then Muslim will unite, but sadly… I don’t think it’s going to happen worldwide and until the appearance of the Imam Mahdi, the man “who was to unite the whole known world of the east and south”. The believer live in the present and equip themselves for this event.

  297. ali says:

    I have met students from the Marmara university at the Faculty of Fine Arts. They tell me that they draw pictures of naked women and men. Yes, real life nudes. Naked Turkish men and women pose to be drawn by students. They take nude photographs and call it art.

    Turkish students learn about the theories of Charles Darwin which is Haram. They are taught many other scientific ideas from physics which are against the Koran.

    Turkey is a filthy disgusting perverted country. It has gone totally against Islam. Like FED UP says, the followers of Kemal should be punished as said in the Koran. No Mercy.

  298. mesa says:

    I have met students from the Marmara university at the Faculty of Fine Arts. They tell me that they draw pictures of women and men without clothes. Yes, real life, pure skin. Naked Turkish men and women pose to be drawn by students. They take naked photographs and call it art.

    Turkish students learn about the theories of Charles Darwin which is Haram. They are taught many other scientific ideas from physics which are against the Koran.

    Turkey is a filthy disgusting perverted country. It has gone totally against Islam. Like FED UP says, the followers of Kemal should be punished as said in the Koran. No Mercy.

  299. fuk darwin says:

    its a well known fact that darwin was convinced by the devil himself to introduce teh darwin theory. to say humans have evolved from monkeys is absolutely haram. we are tought it here in england n its absolute bullshit. thats the “secular” societies for u. just shows that nobody has researched the miracles and scientific facts of the quran. How the prophet revealed knowlegde of teh big bang, how the embryo develops in teh mothers womb etc…all this 1400 years ago! modern science only realised this and became so advanced within the last 100 years!! how can any1 deny islam?!

  300. Doine says:

    “islam is the stench from the corpse of that dead Bedouin pervert. ” Ataturk was nothing less than a genius for recognizing the debilitating and corrosive effects of islamic belief on society.
    An example: pakistan bangladesh and india achieved Independence from the British empire at the same time. India with a Hindu majority is a vibrant democracy, economic powerhouse, up and coming superpower. pakistan and bangledesh are horrid sh*tholes, and the more islam advances the worse they will get. The muslim brotherhood says, “islam is the solution.”…. sorry it’s hard stop laughing, that’s al takkiyya, the problems for muslims come directly from islam. The truth is islam is the problem, as Ataturk so brilliantly recognized.
    The jihadi scum rant about how much they love death, and Non-muslims love life, which seems to be true, In iraq they managed to kill what 4 or 5 thousand American troops in 6 years, and suffered a low estimate of 55,000 dead jihadis.
    I must say that is impressive 4000 to 55,000, they realty are good at dying, poor fighters but excellent at dying.

  301. Ghurabaa says:

    Oh Allah, punish the followers of Ataturk in the worst of ways. May they die a slow painful death.

    Oh Allah, punish the kufur Alevi. May they scream and shout in Hell.

    O’Mujahideen ! The enemy is plotting…
    and Allah is plotting too,
    and what they conspire against you will never succeed…
    For Allah the Most High, Most Great is All-Hearing and All-Knowing of the
    unseen.

  302. haldun says:

    So ghurabaa is this how you pray to the one who created the heavens and the earth ? im a human, a turk and a muslum i love ATATURK AND ISLAM we do not worship mka never did thats why people need to use there brain you can not change anyone only allah can may allah guid you all to the right path.

  303. Anon says:

    I’d like to ask to the all the ataturk supporters? Why do you all love him? What did he really do for you and our country? Really..think about it. The proof that many people above have posted about who and what he really was like and what the plan behind the scenes really was, how can you love a man like him? A sell out, not a great turk.

  304. haldun says:

    all great heros are talked badly about. why ?
    people intend to beliave others like the media,papers,book and people why not just go and have a look at turkey for your self and ask your bad talking mouths would it have been better run by the non muslims

  305. MuslimTurk says:

    Salam,

    You are completely wrong when you say that only 20% of Turks are practising Muslims. That’s a preposterous claim and I feel insulted. It’s more like 60%. Where did you get your information from?

  306. mohammed says:

    asalaamu alaikum
    my beloved brothers & sisters.
    if anyone says he or she is a muslim , then their first allegiance or loyalty should be to islam & not their country, language or even their family.
    anyone who attacks or dameges islam cannot be considered a good person by any muslim.
    our strength lies in being united under Islam- not looking for faults in others and thinking we are better than them.
    we should use all our resources to ensure that 100% of the oders of Allah Ta’ala & the sunnah of Rasulullah (SAW) come alive firstly in our life, the life of our families & the entire ummah.
    that is our responsibility & we will be questioned regarding how we spent our life on Yawmul Qiyaamah.
    and to the person who said that only 20% of Turks are practicing muslims- maybe this is only in the cities & urban areas- in the villages & countryside, alhamdulillah, muslims are more conscious of their deen.

  307. A Turk says:

    This article certainly do not agree. This has been an ugly attack Atatürke is not nothing.

  308. Doine says:

    “if anyone says he or she is a muslim , then their first allegiance or loyalty should be to islam & not their country, language or even their family.
    anyone who attacks or dameges islam cannot be considered a good person by any muslim.”

    good argument for utter colonization by arabs

  309. REALTURK says:

    doine jus stfu and u a turk. gd argument? its not about arabs its about the muslim community as a whole.

    the prophet muhammed saw said that no arab is greater then a non arab and vice versa. he also said that what unites us all is islam…not NATIONALITY. NATIONALITY IS HARAM.

    so fuck u doine, u know nothing about the basics of islam..im turk and i don’t criticise everyfing about the arabs although they along with us turks have done many bad too.

  310. Doine says:

    Arabs have done bad things… like stabbing the Turks in the back in ww1, trying to infilrate Turkish mosques with that saudi Wahhabi/salifist
    filth. What have Turks done that is so bad real(make me laugh)turk, what are the crimes you accuse Turkey of?

    Haram… even the word speaks of arab colonization. Turks will never abandon their Noble Language and Heredity to be the servants to a lesser people.

    you sharia loving fools, how well do you know this law you claim to defend? The schools of this evil demand that this resurrected caliph
    you crave be an arab from mohammed’s tribe.
    racist’s as bad as nazis

  311. dsamiuk says:

    Atatuck was greater than Churchill

    – Churcill had always the support of his own nation. What about Ataturk? He always had to deal with reactionists who brainlessly believe in that laicism is the same with atheism. What a pity that such loser people who I dont call them as Turkish still live in Turkiye.

    – Ataturk has been subsequently the commander of Turks in the First World War in which Turks lost. However, Turks were only the nation gained their freedom in their own liberation war by Ataturk, even they had lost World War I. Despite of all handicaps and its very wide geopolitical position, despite of the battles in 3 fronts against at least 7 nations and despite losing the big war, Turks couldnt have been assimilated by traitor Ottoman government’s treaties signed by force. Guess who returned Turks back from this hard situation?

    – Also, we shouldnt forget Gelibolu battles in which Ataturk caused a soul to reborn a nation by heroic fights of soldiers in desperate situations. I dont think Churchill had to live such hard times.

    – Ataturk was not only a big commander and a statesman, but also he was maybe the best revolutioner in the world; he brought laicism removing caliphate and brought democracy removing sultanate. Also, revolutions like latin alphabet and election for women, was all thanks to him. Please read; some of todays’ democracy remarkers in Europa who try to seem like that they invented democracy and trying to teach Turks the democracy, has not had such revolutions in their countries like election for women in those times.

    – There are many things to write about Ataturk with his several qualities. However, I am just gonna finish my answer with his words about Canakkale Gelibolu Battle in which hundreds of thousands people died;

    ” Those heroes from England, France, Australia, New Zealand and India who shed their blood and lost their lives…!
    You are now lying in the soul of a friendly country, therefore rest in peace.
    There is no differences between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours…
    You, the mothers who sent their sons from far away countries,
    wipe away your tears.
    Your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land, they have become our sons as well.”
    ATATURK, 1934

  312. haldun says:

    well said dsamiuk couldn’t be said any better!

  313. Doine says:

    History is to a great degree the story of great men. Men,who serve their People, are among the highest, as both Churchill and Ataturk did.
    Churchill resisted German aggression, Ataturk abolished the decaying shells of a failed past, embraced the modern world and sought to reverse arab cultural colonization, still think of it colonization by a culture, whose countries rank at the bottom of every human scale. They translate fewer books than Spain, and they are virtually all police states of one form or an other. Even the Kurds seem much better able to govern themselves, than arabs. arabs who expect the rest of the world to fix their bloody countries and carry them. Arabs who want to export their problems, and f–kedup veiw of life, and craving after death. Look at the egyptians, among the longest histories on the planet, now think of themselves as arabs. yet a native minority continue to exist under threat, the Copts, their language related to that of the Pharaohs.
    Eygpt has been thoroughly colonized. Native identity has bee replaced with ……. arab colonization, one of the side effects of islam.
    I Pray to God, Allah, that which created all,
    that arabic ever becomes the language of Turkey(Never happen), or that Turks ever ever, like those arab eygptians , call themselves arabs, (smplsh) if ever this happens, the world has descended into hell. I thank him that horror will never happen. But, thank the highest being, this crime will never never happen, Not while a true Turk breathes.

  314. Levent GENÇTÜRK says:

    Şeyh Sait denilen ingilize satılmış hain din adamı müsveddesini öven bu sitenin İslamın ve Şark milletlerinin son kalesi olan anadoluyu ingiliz lerin maşası olan barbar yunanlılara mezar eden Mustafa Kemale hakaretinin nedeni nedir?
    Dine olan sözde duyarlılıklarını acaba Türk ve müslüman olan islamın en büyük mezheplerinden biri olanhanefiliğin kurucusu İmam-ı Azam Ebu Hanefi’nin mezarın havaya uçuran Amerikan tankına da gösterebilmişmidir.

  315. Abdullah says:

    Really makes me laugh how a “muslim” can say sharia law is backwards. Remember, this is the law that the Prophet told us to stick by, going away from it is our downfall. Are you, Doine, openly rejecting what the prophet himself told us, and what Allah has told us in the Quran?

    Now way does Sharia Law impinge on women’s rights. Remember arab culture before islam involved veiled clothing. All islam says is for women to be modest, not reveal yourselves completely.

    Surley you are of the wrongdoers if you believe women revealing themselves is “freedom.” They have infact disgraced themselves.

  316. Doine says:

    I reject priests, and priests create what passes for Sharia, these laws that claim divine sanction and infallibility. I reject this with the whole of my being. I am disgusted with immams, muftis, sheiks, ayatollahs, and other so called scholars, claiming to speak for God. Claiming His Authority , these parasites disgust me as no other, excepting the cowards who follow and give themselves to priests. Lacking the courage to have a direct relationship with the sole Creator, pathetic creatures who conceal their nature by fake piety, and excessive religiosity.
    I reject those who deify the man, Mohammed, by claiming Perfection for him. Perfection belongs only to Allah, claiming it for any man or woman is the worst of blasphemies. When the historical record of his deeds cannot be anything but Perfect, that is without fault. I suggest you explore it. Asside from the arab supremacist qualities of present day interpretations sharia, the institutionalization of slavery is an obscenity. I am proud of my People, all of Humanity, that we have destroyed the open trade in other human beings as property, or chattel. If you want slaves or a return of the moral acceptance of slavery, as in current sharia rulings from saudi and al-ahzar will confirm, I am your enemy.
    I reject idiots who want to redraw the world’s borders, regardless the millions of lives such an exercise in horror would claim, to satisfy a political fantasy. The ideal Islamic state, following the Quaran, Hadith, and the example of the first three generations of Islam. After Mohammed’s death, 3 out of 4 of the Caliphs were assassinated, how many civil wars over succession? Perhaps these self proclaimed holymen, salifists would have society hand political power over to the priests of Islam,
    like the shia in Iran. Part of the argument for the betrayal by the arabs against the Turks was
    the Turkish Caliph was illegitimate because he was a Turk rather than an arab, therefore it was halal to slit his throat. For those of you who believe in the Ummah, and have not seen it for what it is, a cover for arab racism. Ask a Indian muslim working construction in the gulf states. Ask a Bangladeshi fighting off Punjabi thugs during the pakistani civil war about the ummah. Or ask fellow muslims, black darfaris about the ummah while they are being raped by janjaweed, arab jihadi.

    God created all that is, if a poet composes a verse in praise of a woman’s beauty, he is in effect praising that which created her. God created the female form, God created the appreciation in man of that beauty, if a man cannot see the beauty of god’s creation without
    having to f*ck it, he is less than a beast. A man who cannot control himself is an inferior form of life, and should be castrated and branded. Abdullah, you carry too much pride, that you can label the display of God’s creation and in the case of art, god given talents as acts of disgrace.
    It speaks of a belief that vilifies life and the joy in life.

  317. Salah says:

    The Ummah is in no way a cover for arab racism. What you see in arabs now is not what the prophet himself and teh arabs of that time wanted..or would have done. Arabs over the centuries have changed alot, they are not the people they once were, they have become corrupt etc. But you just blame arabs? Look at Turks, look at Pakistanis, Indians etc. Whether your arab or not, theres corruption everywhere and this is a clear sign of qayamah.

    Just like Abdullah said, Sharia Law is in no way opressive and a backward law. The sharia law in saudi arabia today is clearly not the sharia law, as it has been altered and changed according to the Wahabi doctrine. This wahabi doctrine is oppresive to women, and i would never want any woman in my family to be part of such a system. Who wouldn’t? But people must realise the difference between the old and the new.

    The Rightly Guided Caliphs were in fact a huge success story. Uniting people under the banner of islam, arab or non-arab and introducing the welfare state which british poltical party “Labour” claims to have found…when in fact it is a creation of Umar-Ibn-Al-Khattab. I have read first hand sources of poets, and many historians of that time. There was relative peace and prosperity in this time as there was at the time of the Ottoman Turks in their prime.

    A united islamic state is a good thing for all muslims, how can anyone consider this to be bad? Look at islamic history since the end of teh ottoman state. Bloodshed, more bloodshed, and even more bloodshed. Remember, this was predicted by the Prophet…but you should not deny that one united state is never going to happen. It will, as is also predicted by the Prophet. Whether your sunni or shia, we all believe in the Mahdi. He will come and he will unite the ummah. I for one believe it will be in this century, just look at whats going on around you.

    One more thing, watch The Arrivals, it really does open your eyes.

  318. Doine says:

    Salah

    Your religious fantasies, historical ignorance, gross falsehoods are pitiful and depressing. The so-called rightly guided caliphs were successful expansionist arab colonizers. Very successful,
    they kicked Byzantine and Sassanid ass. The imperial Persians, could not stand the contemptible treatment at the hands of their arab conquers they received. Hence, Shia own Iran. Shia, who would dispute your claims of success for the first four caliphs. During Mohammed’s lifetime a discrimination was made between arabs and non-arab converts, in favour of arab culture and language. The Berbers in north africa, rebelled against arab rule after the arabs tried to withdraw the freedom from the jhizia, Berber converts had achieved. Arab governments have constantly followed policies aimed at the destruction of Berber peoples. Arabs are devious, they tied their colonial fantasies to religion. Brilliant in it’s evil, if you think of colonialism in any form, by any group as evil. Who paid the poets for their glowing praise, these said, you have read. Are you familiar with the concept of propaganda?…
    The success of islamic culture collapses when islamic conquests end. When it cannot conquer, and it’s conquests will always terminate, it turns in on it’s self. More muslims have been killed in the name of islam than have non-muslims, in the last 8 years, since ikhwan, saudi front, al Queada began their campaign. These fanatics feel no shame in casually murdering women and children. Hamas used children as a shield in gaza, during the last isreali attack. They attack indigenous artists and art forms, most saudis will look at you and bink like an idiot, if you say art, but they do have good poets. Nothing to compare with those in Urdu, but good still.

    The Madhi, blind devotion to a charismatic dictator, that is an islamic mind for you,. as long as you never find him believe what you will.
    Trust in God, not in men, men are always fallible, always, only Allah is perfect, only
    The Highest Power, the One. Men live in a constant state of cockup and corruption.
    Those who claim divine authority are too often the worst, look at Iran, how many murdered by the islamic republic, which in reality is a theocratic tyranny. If sharia were not manmade, written, and created by man, why would there be five major schools, and how many sects, if it were truely divine i would think only one would be necessary as it would be perfect. A girl is raped in Nigeria, she is impregnated, and cannot produce whitnesses to the rape because we all know most rapes take place in front of many people, she is caned for illegal sex. A woman in pakistan again raped cannot produce 4 male or 6 female muslim whitnesses off to prison with her, huhood laws inspired by sharia clerics. A innocent woman stoned to death in a village in Iran for adultry.
    Have you ever seen that happen, did you like it?
    If you did there is a good chance you’re a psychopath, and seriously ill. The Ottoman state was in a near constant state of war because Turks are a great people, warlike and fierce, conquest is in the blood. Being the servants of camel piss drinking arabs is not in the nature of a Turk.

  319. Jihan says:

    Your an embarrasment to any muslim. how can u ever call urself a turk and a muslim?

    What makes u fink u knw more then us regarding history? What salah has said is very true, where have u actually got ur sources from?

    U call urself muslim? Ur blatantly bashing the prophet and and the mahdi. Ur blatantly bashing an islamic state. Im glad i was brought up in england and never brain washed with this stupid ataturk propaganda. I am so happy my mother and father are from Konya and not Istanbul.

    and ur talkin about hamas etc, u as a “MUSLIM” should realise those are not true muslims. why dont u do some REAL islamic history research and realise islam is not the islam portrayed by hamas and al-qaeda.

    ur a bullshiter..end of story. u know nothing about islam and u know nothing about your own people. “turks are a warlike people” haha dont make me laugh “always in a constant state of war” absolute crap. Actually read the history of the ottomans and most of it was actual relative peace.

    One more thing, u dont believe in the mahdi? haha…do you not believe in the prophets prophecys? The Mahdi will surely come when people don’t believe in him. The way you speak…u are surely of the hypocrites mentioned in the quran. Asshole.

  320. Doine says:

    Call me whatever you want, boy. Men don’t debate with children or those who carry a child’s fantasies.
    The victim’s of paranoia and propaganda are not those who hold true to Ataturk’s vision, But those who give themselves to the clerics, they betray the true message, no intermediaries between you and Allah. Mohammed was a man, I reject you fools who hide your own lack of faith and love of God, behind moehemmed’s image. What does some english mongel know of Turks? you have know shame, fool.

  321. REALTURK says:

    u completely sidetracked from what jihan said, try answerin him?

    and i cant help just laughin at u…what has turkey become since the end of the ottomans. u have lost ur identity, and ur proud of something of only the last not even 100 years of turkish history. the great history is of the seljuks and ottomans.

    Mohammed was not just a man, he was a prophet. Remember that, a man chosen by Allah as the last mercy to mankind. He prophecised many things, many things which have come true and will come true. Your openly rejecting anything he has said and anything written in the Hadith and the Quran. Your a fool..a foolish turk who has lost his identity, who is proud of his nationality rather then his ummah. you are no muslim.

  322. Doine says:

    colonizedturk would be a much better name for you than the deceitful name you call yourself, realturk. “Mohammed was not just a man, he was a prophet”, you seem to come very close to worshiping him. Allah has no partners. worship is for god alone.

    Sura an-Najm (Star) 53:19-22
    Now tell me about Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat,
    The third one, another goddess.
    What! For you the males and for him the females!
    That indeed is an unfair division.

    Goddesses in partnership with the One. Mohammed was fooled by Shaytan, in his own words, Mohammed was no where near perfect, if he could be corrupted, if the Quaran as a book of the one true God could it be so corrupted? You unthinking idiots label everyone who disagrees with you beliefs and interpretations as “not real muslims” who has given you this authority, God? The hadith, the priests at al-azhar and qom know that the hadith are hearsay, they have constructed a veritable science to distinguish the reliability of this ancient hearsay. You fools believe every hadith, find the one of Mohammed recommending camel piss as a cure all, and drink all the camel piss you like it will not save you from stupidity.

  323. Doine says:

    On more thing, oh wise and learned “real” muslims
    You who want to be ruled by the priests, if they, these priests in islamic garb, and their sharia are truly are God’s way why five major differing schools? because they are manmade as imperfect as everything manmade. Why would innocents be punished,over and over again in the Name of God? Is this justice? Allah is most Just.
    Saudis and the Ikhwan are not real Islam, as the dolt above has stated, so they would accuse him of the same. Every idiot believes he holds the true belief of Islam. Even though they follow Priests, and the promise of early Islam was an abolition, and freedom from, the clergy. Power hungry men who deceive and use Faith for their own ends. That is the Islam you express.

  324. Salah says:

    No…this is your misunderstanding and shows you haven’t read our posts and have been chatting a load of bullshit. I have constantly said in my above posts the Sharia Law today in Saudi is wrong. What i am talking about is a return to the original Sharia law, an uncorrupt govt, an uncorrupt leader. Being corrupt in the end is of course up to the leader himself and Allah knows best, and will punish him.

    Would you not rather want a system which brings you closer to God? Or a Secular ungodly stupid mustafa kemal ideology? Your obviously brainwashed so you will never understand.

    Regarding the five schools, their is actually hardly any difference between. The difference is a different imam/founder and the other difference being in the way we pray. That is all. The five schools still believe in the authentic hadith, unlike you. You, who is completely disregarding what the Prophet said, including in his last speech which i said in my last post yet you have no answer to. You, who is openly denying Allah’s words in the Qur’an, yet you still call yourself muslim.

  325. Jihan says:

    its one fing believing in a secular state and still believing in the prophets teachings and the things he said. But Doine…wow you don’t even believe in the hadith and you call yourself a “muslim.” Bet you believe your “modern” lol but your just…stupid?

  326. Doine says:

    Unthinking morons, you two wastrels, you think by cloaking yourselves in Mohammed’s mantle, you prove yourselves pious. You deceive none but yourselves. Allah gave humans minds with which to reason, and voice to express their love for Him.
    Your criticisms are hollow, you minimize the differences between the sharia schools, out of stupidity, ignorance, or deceit, i care not which.Yet you cannot explain why so many versions. I will tell you because they are priest made laws. They cannot even agree on the succession of leadership among muslims, except that the leader must be an arab of the quraysh. Racist pigs. So the saudi version of sharia isn’t the true form which is then, the original form? Which one is that, utopian fantasist fools. Not every hadith is authentic, and if you actually explore how the priests determine false from true you see they choose the ones that serve their interests and power most often. Other than, that It is all f*ucking guess. If you put your faith in them you put your faith in men alone.

  327. mohammed says:

    im sure theres plenty hadith that are “authentic” that will prove your thinking to be corrupt.
    please stop using the excuse of what Arabs did to Turks as justifications for not liking the Caliphate to return.
    understand this:
    the only reason for the fall of the Ottoman Caliphate in Arabia was the interference of british/Zionist spies like TE lawrence and the same people installed their puppet in Turkey-Kemal Pasha.

  328. Doine says:

    Hadith Qudsi 19:5: “The Prophet said that Allah commanded him to destroy all the musical instruments, idols, crosses and all the trappings of ignorance.”

    Is this one authentic? Should believers live without music, because some priests say this bit of ancient gossip is what Mohammed says Allah says.

    Or maybe this one:

    “On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will pour molten lead into the ears of whoever sits listening to a songstress.”

    I reject a resurrection of the caliphate because those hadith you cling to racially require that the caliphate be an arab. Submitting to an this Human consruct, God has nothing to do with it.
    Out of love for Allah, please refrain from so staining the Most Just and Loving with this attempt to steal His Authority. I reject this foolishness for this reason and host of others too long to mention.

    Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6 and he in his fifties, consummating the relationship common practice at the time. Humans have improved, well some, and have for the larger part discarded this custom. If a man in his fifties
    looked at my daughter of 9 as a potential wife
    I would cut him so deep his life would bleed out
    in seconds, and he would be his families shame.

    Turkey is a Great Nation in spite of Islamic superstitions. God knows All, he knows my heart, and he will and is the only true Judge.
    Priests that claim power in His name are an obscenity of the worst kind. Surpassed only
    by the filth that give them power, thinking that the sanction of these priests will absolve them of their responsibilities toward Allah. Committing sin after sin cowering behind piety. Fools, you cannot hide your evil behind anything God knows us all and all of us. God is not bound by reason, let’s hope he bind’s Himself with Love and Forgiveness.

    The Caliphate failed because it was a poor form of government. I do not blame God for that, obviously, a man-made construction.

  329. Friend says:

    A Message to Fellow Human Beings of the Islamic Faith:

    Dear Muslims, what I shall say below may seem offensive to many of you. Nevertheless, please be assured that I speak without malice. Hear me out completely before forming your final opinion.

    I wish to suggest that you are the victims of an immense and immensely tragic historical artifact. In plain words, you are unwitting participants in a self-perpetuating personality cult of a medieval warlord called Mohamed, that has brought nothing but blood and tears. Before you stop reading in outrage, please hear me out completely.

    Look at the other unambiguous personality cults that exist around the world. Kim Jong il and Kim il Sung of North Korea for instance, are genuinely considered divine by most of their subjects, and yet, to those of us free of that brainwashing, they are only murderous tyrants who have divided a peaceful nation against itself. Fortunately, they did not manage to take over South Korea, so their malign influence is relatively contained.

    Not so of others like Mao Zedong of China. This man was responsible for the deaths of literally tens of millions of his citizens in pursuit of personal power and grandiose delusions. Yet, despite their innate intelligence, the Chinese dare not speak the truth about this man, long after his death. This demonstrates the enduring power of the cult of personality.

    Likewise, tyrants such as Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein inspired boundless adulation from their subjects, even as they were the main victims of their policies. If you had approached one of their subjects in those times, these same people would have mounted an impassioned defence of their hero, not willing to accept a single flaw or mistake in them.

    What then are the signs of a cult of personality? These are, in my view, complete obedience of dogma without applying one’s own judgement, a refusal to accept any flaw in the object of the personality cult, derision for those who do not subscribe to the same views, the intrusion of dogma into very aspect of life, such as clothing and food, and readiness to use violence to “persuade” outsiders to convert.

    All these characteristics are present in Islam. Did you ever wonder why muslims in other countries are always to be found in conflict with their hosts? From Australia, to the Philipines and Thailand, India, the UK, France, Germany and many others, it is only the muslim minority that is unable to get along smoothly with their hosts. Why should this be? Answer this question honestly to yourself.

    Many muslims are proud of claiming that “Islam is a religion of the sword”.Yet have you pondered the implication of this statement that your own ancestors were converted on the same sword-point?

    Likewise, in most countries with a muslim majority, that country is most likely to be declared an Islamic state, with second class status for everyone else. The only exceptions are Turkey and Indonesia, out of over 50 muslim countries. Even in Turkey, it has taken multiple army coups to keep the country secular.

    One of the drawbacks of this all-encompassing cult of personality is that it makes its adherents incapable of independent thought and new ideas. Did you know that the number of books translated by the Spanish in one year is greater than that translated by Arabs over one millennium? What could be the cause of this?

    I therefore urge you to ponder these issues deeply and without preconceptions. Beware of the urge to overlook or ignore inconvenient facts. Please make an effort to think independently.

    It will be your instinct to “counter-attack” me. But the truth is, I’m not attacking you at all. I’m just stating the facts. Please see this passage as a request, not as an offence.

    My regards.

  330. +Apostolos K. Gatsias says:

    Ofcorse Kemal was a donmeh. The same in Greece, at this time another donmeh was Venizelos. Both of them destroyed the faith of christian and islam nations. So, they destroyed generaly the faith. The jewish faith too. England is a paradise for donmehs and a protectorate of Rotsilds. Kemal, Venizelos and other bastards like them, were spions of atheists jews Rotsilds- english-Vatikano- Illuminati – masons etc. They have done a big crime against to greeks, turks, armenians, jews, curds, assyrians, palestinians, arabs and many many other inocent peoples. The One God bless all the inocent martyr nations, victims of secular cryptojews – falsh jews saloniceans, donmehs, frankists, maskilim, illuminati, satanists, english.

  331. mohammed says:

    i wonder how many Jews are here acting as muslims because i dont think any muslim, no matter how secular he may be, would post such nonsense like what many fools here post.

  332. Oktay Balkis says:

    I agree with my Greek friend above, Ataturk was a dictator. It is also wrong to give Ataturk the full credit of Turkeys war of independance. Dont forget General Kazim Karabekir forces liberating the eastern boder and Azerbayjan.
    I am also disappointed with the way my fellow Turks comments towards our muslim brothers from asia. They are being very rude and defensive and wont accept any critisim of Ataturk. After all the Turkish education system has brainwashed them with thier “dear leader” and wont accept any negative remarks about the man. After all he was a human being, and human beings do make mistakes and committ sins. Inshallah “God willing” Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria and other muslims nations will unite and form a “G8″ of muslim nations and will than be able to follow an independant foriegn policy.
    Lets see if Isreal can massacer the poor palastinians fo Gaza.

  333. Ilyas says:

    The Caliphate failed for many reasons, but that doesn’t mean it is a weak form of government. The Caliphate system is the strongest form the world has ever seen and dominated for over 1000 years.

    It failed because of so much internal strife, rise of nationalism, zionist/masonic influences, and the advancing technology of the west.

    Inshallah it will return, as is also predicted by the Prophet himself. One cannot call himself a Muslim if he/she openly disregards the Prophets sayings.

    Doine talks about authentic hadith, it is obvious you believe no hadith is authentic, so what do you exactly believe? Allah himself states in the Qur’an no nation is greater than another, and no race then another. If an Arab has caused you so much pain and believes himself better then you, then why do you follow suit? You, as a Turk are just as bad as him. I have many, many friends, varying from Turk, Arab, Afghan, Pakistani etc and we all see ourselves as muslims, and do not differentiate with each other regarding our nationality.

    Anyone here claiming to be “muslim” and supporting secularism clearly is lost, and inshallah Allah will guide you.

    Also, one last thing. I hope us all Muslims here, no matter what nationality, atleast in ur hearts respect each other and hope that on the grand international stage we unite. The Masons have divided and conquered us, everytime we have been united we have been powerful. Inshallah we will rise once more, as one ummah.

  334. Doine says:

    Ilyas,

    I am very happy you have overcome any racist beliefs you might have previously held, and that you were able to follow islamic practice to do this is amazing and profound. You’re very special, special like you need professional metal health help. What do you accuse me of here, takfir, because I refuse to submit to the power and lies of priests who have NO legitimate authority. The veracity, truthfulness of hadith
    is open to inquiry, and if you accept them all you’re an idiot. These hadith are not the Quaran , they are mixed with some truths, a collection of fables, lies, and gossip. Any who claim infallibility in distinguishing between them is a liar. Any who want to use these collections to form a state, and govern a country, or reestablish an empire are power seeking ideologues, and parasitic morons at best.
    They are about as holy as shit in a toilet bowl
    I have heard some here blame the jews, blame free masons, blame jinn, for the faults of Islamic societies, you fools disgust me, trying to tie your pathetic designs to the Allmighty, will surely give you the backhand of his wrath. So when you find out it wasn’t the jews, or masons or illuminati, or some other fantasy group to blame your problems on, what happens then and how many lives, like the salifists in algeria, must be destroyed to show you how wrong you are? priest worshiping scum

  335. Omar says:

    Doine, It is you who is scum. You are the shit in the toilet bowl. I have such killing hatred for scum like you.

  336. Doine says:

    my dear child, omar

    and you are a priest? Or one of their servants?
    not particularly original or bright from the sounds of it.

    It is wrong to say as all your priest acknowledge, hadith are not reliable, and any who say that they know which are true and which are false with perfect accuracy is a liar.

    as far as your over the internet threat, pathetic weakling post your full name and address, I will come find you, if I decide you are worth the bother, might be entertaining.

    Do like you knives, bitch

  337. Salah says:

    You keep blaming these priests nobody is mentioning. I don’t follow priests, i believe what has been believed for centuries. You are a clear example of something else the prophet said himself, every generation after him will stray further and further away from the right path, and someone like you denying the hadith (i am not saying all are authentic) and disregarding what the prophet and Allah himself has said in the Qur’an about nationalism is a prime example.

    Now of course..people have blamed masons, jews etc. I personally believe it is the masons, and not the jews as the masons don’t care about jews either. But i don’t jus blame them. The main blame lies on muslims themselves, for straying away from the right path, family values, adultery etc. It is everywhere, and muslims are in the position they are in themselves because of the way we are today..along with the works of Masons/illuminati.

    Doine, you are clearly the lost child, not Omar or anyone else.

  338. haldun says:

    what the hell is this blaming the only one you can blame is your selfs and omar you sound like a person that has alot of problems you need help and everyone that has a erg to kill. i truely believe that your not in the rightly guided path my brothers and doine there isn’t any priest mentioned one more thing if someone loves there country there free to if someone loves someone there free to islam is not based on killing or forcing it is based on love and peace we all do sin full acts everyday we are not perfect

  339. doine says:

    Salah,

    Are you people serious? the Ulema have evolved into a priesthood, all their laws, institutions and idiotic fatwas are their to serve their own power and prestige. Iran is the most blatant example of this sacrilege, but their power is growing all over the Islamic world.
    It is the worst innovation in Islam we have ever
    seen. Islam was supposed to free men from the strangle hold of the priests, now they(immams, sheiks, muftis, and clerics) want Allah’s authority for themselves. Blind fools attach themselves to these vermin and give them power, power that you will not find given to them in the Quaran

  340. tgirl says:

    I am a Turkish woman, and because of my father I have spent most of my life living outside Turkey and have lived in many Middle Eastern countries. When I see the how these people live, how they think, how they behave, everything – I am repulsed and I feel very proud to be Turkish.

    Doine does not belive in priests or hadiyth. I am an athiest. This is acceptable in Turkey

    As a women I appreciate this. Turkish men have honor and treat women with respect; Arabs look at me like starving hyenas. From many experiences, I learnt to never look at an Arab man in the eyes.

  341. hus says:

    Its funny you guys are bad mouthing doine, calling him a this and that, not a real muslim etc.

    But you guys havent given a single response to any of the arguements he has put forward, Instead most of you just attack him with childish remarks or say you personally are following the real islam..

  342. hus(iceman) says:

    Imagine if you idiots who are talking all this crap actually came to power and ran a single country as an islamic state. I guess peoples oppionons wouldnt matter since you guys havent given any answers to the questions put forward by people supporting ataturk or questioning the hadiths,sheiks, imams etc
    I guess you wouldve had doine beheaded for speaking his mind.
    Heres a question why are all you so called True muslims running to the kafur countries europe,usa,canada,australia etc? If your a true muslims wouldnt you want to live in a country with sharia law? like afghanistan or saudi or iran or some african country with sharia?

    Also to all you idiots who want to live under sharia or what your claiming to be sharia law, why do u always want a country to have that law why not implement it on yourselves and your own family? Why not cut your sons hand off when he steals? why not behead or stone your daughter for adultery?
    You guys talk big but can any of you people who want a shria state or caliphate actually live by the laws your preaching and put it on yourselves and family 1st?

  343. hus(iceman) says:

    How can you guys have a kaliphate when theres is lets say no more than 20-30 people who have posted on this single thread and cant stop argueing? imagine if you had the whole muslim world trying to unite under 1 leader? impossible. Also would this guy be a turk? arab? indian? or what? millions would die just under that question if there was ever a selection for a kaiphate.
    Also theres alot of talk about muslims dieing everywhere like palestine,pakistan,afghanistan,africa etc but you guys fail to mention that there is more muslims killing muslims in the world than kafurs killing muslims.
    Also what is a true muslim? who is a true muslim? which sect or tribe are following true islam? which following is the true following,shia,sunni,alevi,wahabi or the million others? (and i mean now in the world not what some1 was doing 1000+years ago).

    Personally i think democracy is really good, freedom,prosperity,fairness, people can do or say or think or act almost as they please as long as its not affecting or hurting any1 else. Considering most muslims are running to democratic countries in the west i dont see how you guys are preaching a return to the kaliphate or whatever..

  344. Taylor says:

    Good points Iceman – but hats off to Doine. A great thing and refreshing to see such honesty and perception of the truth from a muslim.
    And great to see he has the balls to say what he sees in spite of opposition by the deluded.

  345. Ethesta says:

    Respect the man who is the savior of Turkish. Who created Turkey. Who differentiated us from those Arabs and who gave us the real Islam-Equal Islam. And eliminated all those elite Muslims-who may judge who is Muslim or not in the name of Allah and experience the greatest sin…
    And do not forget if Arabs would like to have Ottoman Empire one more time, it will be under the rules of Kemalism (Yes-he is so much powerfull). Meaning Equality-Democracy-Secularism-Nationalism and Discipline. Are you ready to be a word power? Or are you in luxury enough? If you are not Freemasons may invest more into Arabs for your luxury. Wake Up Stupids! They are you`r leaders. WAKE UP!!!
    I thank Allah we got Ataturk in 20th Century. Tomorrow is his 71st death day. Let his soul rest in heaven…
    But we need him one more time for 21st century-asap… Or we will be the puppet of capitalism soon with those so called Muslims-AKP… Puppets of freemasonry…

  346. tgirl says:

    @ Apostolos K. Gatsias

    Why have Greeks have not achieved anything for two thousand years ? Philosophy, art, science was a shadow compared to the times of Plato and Aristotle. Don’t you think Byzantine art is childish ? Greeks had the same degenerate disease like your muslim brothers. Christianity kept Greeks and Islam kept Turks in the dark ages.

    Greeks are moving forward because they have freed themselves from orthodox fundamentalists like you. If you think Venizelos is a bastard then he must a great man.

  347. Jihan says:

    We are accused of being “backward” and all sorts of things. Then you accuse for accusing you of being a non muslim. We obviously cannot judge who is and who isn’t, but isn’t it obvious when a Muslim openly denies what Allah says in the Quran?

    Are you then in turn, saying that the Qur’an has been flawed etc? This idea (similiar to the Ahmadi ideas) is heretic. How did this man, Mohammed know many scientific facts 1430 years previous which have just recently been discovered. Recently…not even a century has gone by. Scientific facts regarding embryology, cloud cycles, THE BIG BANG, life forms other then humans, speed of light etc.

    Some people above have heaped praise Doine. Yet, what has he actually proved by arguing with us? He has accused us of following “priests” which i, and Salah and haldun said there is no such thing. All he has done is talk how great Mustafa Kemal was etc. Without any proof. If you further up, you will see proof and links of what MK was really like, and just like the AKP and every muslim nation in the world right now, also a puppet of the system of dajjal.

    Now, others have accused of being deluded. Yet, would no muslim here want a return to the straight path, the way prophets mohammed, isa, moses, ibrahim told us to live?

    Obviously we all commit sins, this is the nature of man. But wouldn’t u prefer a system which makes it easier for you to follow this path, then the path we are taking in modern times? The path of dajjal?

    Iceman, you talk about democracy. Yes real democracy is a good thing, why not? But is there really a muslim country in true democracy right now? They’re all dictators, in it for themselves and have given the people now rights or freedoms. This is not democracy. People blame the muslims themselves, in part this is true we have strayed. But remember, when these new nations formed after the “collapse” of colonialism, the colonists made sure that the govt put in power would always have their interest at heart.

    Surely a return to true islam would be a way to counter this. Would no want want this? Is this a delusion?

  348. Laila Faizah says:

    Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wa barakatuh, brothers and sisters,

    Allahumma shalli ‘ala sayyidina Muhammad, wa ‘ala alihi wa shohbihi ajma’in..

    1st, I’d like to say congratulations to the owner of this website!! because there are a lot of visitors and commentators here…and I am one of them ( accidentally I found your website during my free days from the assignments of my psychology class..and I wouldn’t have so much time here)

    My name is Laila, I am 21, an Indonesian moslem. I am married, but I am lucky having a very good husband, The University of Indonesia’s IT master graduated, openminded, good muslim, has no hate to other in his heart, loyal, and very romantic. He is the owner of some companies but he doesn’t like living in luxury. He gave majority of his wealth to people who are starving and need educations. Even He chooses to use motorcycle and public transportations other than cars everywhere. Yes, He has a car, but He gave his car to be at the company’s properties the employees and friends could use it as long as they want. Plus, my husband really supports me to go to the college ( whereas, I used to refuse to study at college at the past ). So, I disagree if some people say bad thing about muslim men.

    Well, I love my religion, Islam..
    Islam came to Indonesia 1stly without sword.. They ( from Uzbekistan, Indian, arabian, and Turkishes businessmen and syeikhs at that time who came to Indonesia), they were all came in peace.
    They knew that our basic character was different with their basic character, they knew that our religion at the past was hindhu and we didn’t-don’t like the rudeness.
    They brang Islam through peace, they didn’t attack us, they didn’t bring swords, cavalleries, bombs, and other weapons.(If they did, we would fight till the last blood).
    They didn’t cast fears among us, even they didn’t try to convert us. Their purposes were just for trading, just like the chinese.
    They just shew their good behaviour among Indonesian hindhus at that time, they didn’t call us as a stupid people or a*****e or F**K (sorry for saying these bad words),us, who did gambling all the day, who praid to the many lords, statues, trees (animism&dinamism). That’s why then we impressed by their behaviour and our kings of some Kingdoms asked them to marry their daughters.
    We asked them about Islam, And then they teach us Islam, and they we teach them our cultures.
    Then they didn’t forbide us to change our culture habbits like singing some gamelans, playing wayang, they played with us sing with us, but with different songs, different characters of wayang(leather puppet). They slowly put the 5 Islam pillars through our cultures…”WITHOUT WEAPON”

    Meanwhile, The opposite conditions occure when the westerns (Portuguese, Netherlands, and Brithists-after World War) came to my land. Knowing Indonesian’s basic characters as hospitable people, welcome people, peace people, they exploit our kindness, made us hate each other by devide et impera politics, and then when we were weak, they took our Land and our Wealth of Natural Resources. They forbided us to trade and connected with the middle east. They spread the fear among us by many weapons. Regret comes late as usual.
    We do appreciate to Ottoman to help Aceh at that time. and we do appreciate to many of Our Heroes..

    But, without the colonialists we would always be a naive person, trust easily to the strangers, and
    until then take advantages of our kindness.
    Bad people are the great teacher, don’t they? when we meet a rude person who insults us like hey you “B***h (Astaghfirullah..) We would know that being insulted is hurt, then we automatically (for normal people) say to our selves that we wouldn’t be like those rude people, we wouldn’t insult others coz being insulted is hurtful, based on that experience after meeting a rude person.

    What happens in Indonesia nowadays, is make me upset. When our little of young labile people were recruited as suicide bombers in the name of Islam (wrong Islam). The leaders are not Indonesians but Malaysians. By the way,why they didn’t bomb their own country?? why did they wash brained a few of our labile youth to attack our own people? Thank God our polices have shotted these leadres of suicide bombers, Dr. azhari and Nurdin M. Top, the malaysians, at our country. They deserve it. They are some of people who claimed themselves as good moslems, from moslem advance country, but the behaviour are not the representative of Islam and these people make their country, Malaysia, have problems with my country. (I said some, doesn’t meant to generalize) Many Malaysian citizens raped our women, ironing the back of our women workers. Same goes with our women in Saudi Arabia.
    However, I’ve met so many good Malaysians and good Arabs as the opposite(like I said before).

    So, In my opinion, It’s about the people,not the Islam. Paus/Monk at the past centuries who asked wars not Christian, It’s Bush, not all American people. Jerks are Jerks, no matter what religions they have. No matter white, yellow, white, brown. No matter from where they are. Psychopaths do not choose the bloods, Nations, Religions, right?

    Islam is a peacefull religion, Islam is very tollerant, Islam is a Rahmatan lil Alamin. Even the Prophet of Muhammad Sallallahu ‘alaihi wasallam invited Christian to be His honour Guess at his place.

    So Please, people who do care so much for telling bad about our leaders, and past leaders. I hope you would clean your glasses in order to see our world.
    You don’t need to tell that Suharto ( my past leaders with some crimes) were a dictator, We know it. And to Turkey, that Mustafa Kemal loved alhohol. They knew it. And ah, If there is a Mustafa Kemal and friends who love alchohol, as part military leaders of the Ottoman Empire, I am sure that the family member of Ottoman Khalifah, and the Family member of Saudi Arabia Kingdom have alcohol problems as well.
    Those who said that Muustafa Kemal is Kafir, Jews, Be careful!!
    Only Allah who really know him, Be careful who you call Kafir to your moslem brothers and sisters. Because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to “sentence” a person to the Hellfire.

    Perhaps there is no faster way to leave Islam than by calling other Muslims “kafir” or “mushrik” without discrimination.

    About calling other Muslims “kafir,jews,munafiqin,” we read the following hadith: It is reported on the authority of Ibn `Umar that the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him) said: Any person who calls his brother: O Unbeliever! (then the truth of this label) would return to one of them. If it is true, (then it is) as he asserted, (but if it is not true), then it returns to him (and thus the person who made the accusation is an Unbeliever). [Muslim]

    Therefore, if you call other Muslims “kafir” or “mushrik” without discrimination, you could find that you have left Islam, according to the words of the Prophet (s.a.w.), in less than a second.

    last but not least, I hope we would stop debating about imam mahdi, about sunni, syiah. I hope We would stop having high temper to the non muslim and guide them into Islam. It’s God’s grace.Our duty is just to make them understand what the Islam truely is. Remember, people always tend to stay away from the high temper people. I hope we would stop wasting time debating about who is going to reach the heaven, who is going to reach the Hell, Only God who knows it. God could put you in the hell or in the heaven as He wants. But a good news is coming from our prophet, Muhammad Sallallahu ‘alaihi wassalam:

    “If you read the kalimah ( shahadah) with conviction just once, Jannah becomes upon you”.

    The right syahadah is : ” Asyhadu allaaa ilaaha illallah….wa asyhadu anna muhammad ar rasulullah..
    So you, all moslem who believe that Allah is the one God, that Muhammad is Allah’s prophet, heaven’s waiting you(Hadits riwayah Imam Muslim).
    Ofcourse as human we have many sins, could we still enter the heaven?
    Yes! as long as you know and regret that its a sin for saying bad things, it’s sin for not praying.As long as You know its sin and you want to change one day. As long as You didn’t pray not because you think that pray is silly.You have the possibilities to enter Heaven. But 1st, you have to stay 1st in the hell for hundred even thousand years. If you say and think that pray is a silly things, even if you insult Muhammad prophet, It means you challenge your God…because you don’t put the syahadah in your heart.

    I hope we’re all stop wasting time by debating. Allah hates people who love debating. People I know who are really good moslems, tend to avoid these kind of debates.

    From aisyah, Mohammed says:
    أَبْغَضُ الرِّجَالِ إِلىَ اللهِ اْلأَلَدُّ الْخَصِمُ
    Allah hates the people who loves debate most.

    مَا ضَلَّ قَوْمٌ بَعْدَ هُدًى كَانُوا عَلَيْهِ إِلاَّ أُوْتُوا الْجَدَلَ. ثُمَّ تَلاَ رَسُوْلُ اللهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ هَذِهِ اْلآيَةَ: {مَا ضَرَبُوْهُ لَكَ إِلاَّ جَدَلاً بَلْ هُمْ قَوْمٌ خَصِمُوْنَ ( hadits Riwayah Abu Umamah RA)
    the point is: The lost people love to debate

    And say: “Are our âlihah (gods) better or is he ['Īsā (Jesus)]?” They quoted not the above example except for argument. Nay! But they are a quarrelsome people. [(See VV. 21:97-101)]

    Invite (mankind, O Muhammad SAW) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islâm) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Revelation and the Qur’ân) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided.

    Last but not least, Wallahu a’lam bisshowab. Allah knows all. No body’s perfect, No President’s perfect. I, you, Mustafa Kemal, Ottoman khalifas, we have many sins. let’s pray for his mercy, guide, and forgiveness. Let’s try to put syahadah in our heart, practice it by obeying Allah’s rule. to pray 5 times a day, to feast in Ramadan, to pay zakat for poor people, to go Hajj if we are able to go there financially and mentally.

    Wassalam(peace)

    Best Regards,
    Laila

    Indonesia

  349. tgirl says:

    I have an idea. Lets do an experiment.

    We shall try and prove whether Allah exists. We should ask Allah to demonstrate to us unequivocally his existence.

    O’ Allah (pbuh), although I have a PhD maybe I actually have a low intelligence, as I have great difficulty understanding the Koran. It appears to me to be the incoherent ramblings of an Arab degenerate. Why can’t I see the your real message ?

    In the hadith, why is Mohammed (SAW) a sexual pervert and a mass murderer ?

    Why are so many educated Turks apostates ?

    O’Allah (pbuh) you are the most powerful, all intelligent, all knowing. I beg you to prove to me that you exist. You can do it !

    O’Allah (pbuh) send a miracle. A comet ! Kill me ! Cut me into a thousand pieces! I give you one week.

  350. Jihan says:

    Wow, what a fool.

    How is the scientific facts in the quran of embryology, other life forms etc in the 7th century the ramblings of an arab degenerate?

    What is it rally that you find so hard to understand? Have you actually read it? You, apparently have, so tell us what you don’t understand, and we as Muslims will try our utmost best to answer, surely this is a sign from Allah, and a chance for you to follow the straight path.

  351. Ahmad says:

    This bitch reminds me of some Turks I met at a some years back.

    I knew nothing about Ataturk. These bastards were talking just like her. I thought Turks were muslims. I was speechless, I could not say a word.

  352. Laila Faizah says:

    @ dear friend, tgirl: you were asking to your God, that’s good. It means, you are still believing that there is a God.
    Why do people ask?
    Because they want to know.
    Why do they want to know?
    Because they are curious.
    to whom do they ask?
    to something who exists, to something who lives, to something who could answer their questions.
    If the questions are to God, They actually know that the God is exist. so That’s the prove of the God existant, isn’t it….?
    why do people ask questions?
    because they have ratio and intelligence.
    Why does Tgirl want to see God?
    Because She has pair of eyes

    I wouldn’t judge you that you are an with bad words because of your questioning to your God. When we love a person, especially by net, we would want to see her/his face right? we would want to be with her/him everytime right?
    It’s not only you, tgirl, who ask God to show his existant. Prophets did. like Musa alaihissalam said, O God, shows me your face, and Muhammad, and Ibrahim prophet did, not because they don’t believe or doubt the God existant. Because they know that God exist, because they love Him most. And yes, because God loves them, God shows them His form.
    How if it is us who ask God ” O God, show me that you are exist!? remember, eyes and ratio often lie. Have you ever dream? in dream, the eyes could watch as if it’s so real rite? But when we woke up then, We’d realize that it’s not real.

    Now I want to ask miss tgirl, because tgirl is a smart girl, I am sure, =) could you describe what color is the ratio and intelligence? could you put at this comment as prove, the picture of Intellegence and ratio? please, sent as .jpg ok….am waiting

    God bless you honey
    Laila
    Indonesia

  353. haldun says:

    well ahmad not all turks are muslims just like not all arabs are muslims even your self how you refer to tgirl as a bitch you should have a better approach on things and there is nothing wrong with educating your self learning new things history even liking some one that did a good thing there is no hate in islam

  354. Laila Faizah says:

    I will try my best to answer the question, why qur’an in arab?
    dear friend, If I ask, “which one would you choose, beeing the monkey’s son/ daughter, or being the Human’s son/ daughter?
    If the answer is the human’s son or daughter, do you know Adam?Yes, Adam…
    What language do you think he used at that time? and in what country Allah sent down after living in Heaven?
    the country which is now we call ” Saudi Arabia”
    the country, which He met his beloved wife in Mekkah. this language is our father’s language.
    God teach him this language.
    Why arab? why that language?
    Do you forget that Allah’s message in Injil 1stly in armenian language?
    but why do this quran in arab?(FAQ) hehe
    Qur’an must uses the language that has never been changed for all decades. what is its? English?
    If Queen in English now is able to chat with her grandpa, King arthur, They would uses non verbal language.hehe..
    So the language must use the language where the 1st human sent down. The language of quran must use the language where from many centuries ago, is still the same. What is it? not arab language. but the human 1st language, exist in Saudi arabia.
    Why? to save the authenticity of The God’s Messages.
    But how could we understand it if my mother language is not that language?
    It is allowed to translate it by the professor of Quran translation, like we have now. and Not all people allow to translate quran. Yet, the original arab qur’an version must be placed among the translation side by side. Since the translation from one to another language is a little bit different with the (what we call) arab language taste.
    Same like in English People often say ” what the he*l is that? how do we say this in our languages? in turkish may be, “Bu cehennem ne? or just the right one, ” Bu ne?” see, the taste of rude english is gone now.
    What is the proof that the arab quran now is still authentic? Let me give you simple example of maany examples which is I am sure would fullfill this blog.
    I’d like to share this link,
    http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_03.html
    Have you ever say bismillahirrahmaanirrahim?
    it is one of many examples that arab alphabet in quran could be devided by 19 (the complete story is at that link)
    Why nineteen?
    and I’d like to write this surah
    “Over it are Nineteen.
    And We have not made the wardens of the fire others than angels, and We have not made their number but as a trial for those who disbelieve, that those who have been given the book may be certain and those who believe may increase in faith, and those who have been given the book and the believers may not doubt, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the unbelievers may say: What does Allah mean by this parable? Thus does Allah make err whom He pleases, and He guides whom He pleases, and none knows the hosts of your Lord but He Himself; and this is naught but a reminder to the mortals.” (QSurah:74:30:31)
    Want to prove, dear friends? ok, I hope you’d open the 50th surah, let’s check how many qaf (ق two dots